Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Well, pre-Majin... over 60 million. I was just saying that it's not fact. I would have him at only 45 million if I thought that Gohan actually got weaker rather than losing his rage boost, like the Daiz said.
Sorry. Just have to say I don't follow that statement. I find it hard to believe. I prefer the whole Gohan got weaker thing.
Well, pre-Majin... over 60 million. I was just saying that it's not fact. I would have him at only 45 million if I thought that Gohan actually got weaker rather than losing his rage boost, like the Daiz said.
Sorry. Just have to say I don't follow that statement. I find it hard to believe. I prefer the whole Gohan got weaker thing.
And GOku still beats King Piccolo.
Vegeta did say base Gohan was weaker.
And yep Piccolo wins, he doesn't even need to take off his weights.
Goku and Vegeta have a 50/50 shot of taking it themselves. Adding Trunks is just the lock on the door. So, the team wins handily.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
I don't really have a set place for Buu Saga Piccolo, other than, minimum, as strong as Super Vegeta. His level is pretty much entirely dependent on what I feel is appropriate for characters who are compared and shown or stated to be superior to him, i.e. a Cell Junior, Kaioshin, Goten, and Trunks. At the moment, I have Buu Saga Piccolo = 50% Cell Games Goku, but I can also see him maybe being strong enough to match a Cell Junior going by what we saw at the Cell Games (again, dependent on how strong I think Kaioshin and the boys are that day).
Piccolo also didn't seem to gain a lot of power from Cell to Buu; he was most likely not as driven, as his student had surpassed him and he recognized he couldn't really keep up with the saiyans without transformations. I have him going from 800 million to 1 billion during that time. But maybe he gained a larger amount of power from Buu to the EoZ due to the larger time gap. On the other, he might even be MORE complacent now...
Hmmm... overall I'm going to take the middle ground between my fluctuating approaches, and say that with ten years of training, Piccolo can probably take the Junior. It'd be a tough fight though.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Piccolo (Post-Kami merger) vs Android Arc Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks
All three Saiyans working together put up a good fight, but Piccolo still emerges victorious (albeit not unscathed).
Piccolo (End of DBZ) vs Cell Jr
The Cell Junior gets wrecked. SSJ Vegeta and Trunks at the Cell Games could fight their Cell Juniors on almost-even grounds, and by this point I figure Piccolo having at least caught up to Cell Games SSJ Gohan, who could easily beat a Cell Junior if one fought him.
Piccolo destroys the Super Saiyans. He's in a different league altogether. Their little team attack would be no different than #17 and Piccolo trying to fight Cell.
Piccolo beats the Cell Jr, too.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
Dabura vs Bojack(Most likely already done to death) - Bojack can trnsform and Dabura can transform into is Budokai 3 transformation.
Bebi(First Two forms only.) vs Janemba(Transformation)
TheGmGoken wrote:Dabura vs Bojack(Most likely already done to death) - Bojack can trnsform and Dabura can transform into is Budokai 3 transformation.
Bebi(First Two forms only.) vs Janemba(Transformation)
Dabra one-shots him. Without magic. Or transformations. Movie 9 SS2 Gohan >= Dabra to me, as I don't think Gohan was enraged there, and the Daizenshuu says teen Gohan = or > kid Gohan without rage.
What form exactly is his first two forms?
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
TheGmGoken wrote:Dabura vs Bojack(Most likely already done to death) - Bojack can trnsform and Dabura can transform into is Budokai 3 transformation.
Bebi(First Two forms only.) vs Janemba(Transformation)
Dabra one-shots him. Without magic. Or transformations.
What form exactly is his first two forms?
Bebi Vegeta and that other little Vegeta that only appeared for 5 seconds(With the shoulder pads)
Oh, then he one-shots Janemba. I see Janemba as Pure Buu's film counterpart, and have them as equals, which fits well with the feats shown.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
I think Bojack was stronger than Super Saiyan Kid Gohan, whereas Dabra was struggling against a weaker Super Saiyan Gohan. He'd just bear hug Dabra.
His 2nd form was said to be quite powerful, I believe. I think GT Super Saiyan 3 Goku would stomp Janemba, so Baby would stomp him with ease.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
TheGmGoken wrote:Legradic(That sword guy Goku fought iN DBGT) vs Mystic Gohan
I used to go with the GT hax like everyone else. But upon reviewing the anime a bit, and learning of a few choice lines... I think Goku didn't surpass Ultimate Gohan until going SS4. The base Goku > SS3 Goku (Z) thing seems rather suspect, as Rildo(?) later says that Goku was a SS "wasn't even using half his power" when he was still fighting in base, suggesting the GT SS multiplier is tiny. Toei, I think, must have been partly aware of how the Fusion Saga guys stacked up to each other, as they conveniently edited out Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks in GT. So Ultimate Gohan smashes Ledgic's face in.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
