Super Saiyan as a child's plaything - Your thoughts

[TheGmGoken]

You guys put way too much thought into the math.

Indirectly we're doing what Akira Toriyama could't do. He himself did say Math isn't his strong point. So who all we know had he been good at math then he could have given an simple explanation(Simple as A+B x 2). Also what thought? All of this is basic math. Well to me that is...

it's WAY too much.

How is it too much? You got 2 strong people fusing.

Vegeta apparently has the power to destroy the Earth when we first meet him, so wouldn't it logically follow that once we start getting to the buu arc, every blast they throw would make Vegeta's power look like nothing.

To destroy the planet you have to have the intentions to. Kinda was proven in the Freeeza Arc. When all the ki attacks hit the ground but wasn't meant to blow everything up. But when Freeza death ball hits it had the intentions of blowing up. Not that hard to follow. Just like how Vegeta had to adjust the aim of Final Flash to NOT blow up Earth.

It's also ridiculous that in the early part of the series that a few points difference in battle power means all the difference, but the gaps become unneccessarily huge later on in the show and yet the weaker opponent puts up some sort of opposition.

Most of the beatdowns from small gap was because the person wasn't evens killed at fighting(Zarbon and Dodoria).

[KentalSSJ6]

If we do take power levels seriously into the Buu saga, the numbers would suggest being universe busters.

Piccolo with a power level in the mid 300's destroyed the moon in 3 seconds (counting from the scene in the anime). If you only need 300 to blow up a moon, then being at 150 million sounds like you could already be a galaxy buster at that point, not even including the power levels likely in the billions with the Buu saga.

[TheGmGoken]

the numbers would suggest being universe busters.

I made a topic about this. NO WHERE CLOSE . Also most Boo Character Power levels aren't that much higher than Cell's. Goku barely got 2x stronger, Vegeta should be slightly ahead of Cell Arc Goku, Gohan is the same level as Cell Arc Goku, Goten and Trunks are....slightly less than Gohan, and Piccolo is still the same level. Just add SSJ2 and SSJ3. If you mean fusion then...they should be dimension destroyers

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Ok Vegito is Goku X Vegeta correct?

Vegetto isn't Goku's BP times Vegeta's BP. The guide just says that Goku cross Vegeta makes Vegetto.

I don't think there's enough evidence to say that Supreme Kai is stronger than Piccolo. The two never actually fought. Piccolo didn't want to fight Supreme Kai, but that could have just been because he was too intimidated by what exactly Supreme Kai was.

Piccolo directly said that Kaioshin is on a different level from him, and the Daizenshuu confirm this. There is also no evidence to support Piccolo > Kaioshin, so I'm done.

[KentalSSJ6]

I'm taking a page from Movie 12 and the english dub when I say this so take it with a pinch of salt but when Goku meets Janemba he says Grand Kai was right to send him and Pikkon to the Check-In Station because Janemba could destroy the whole universe. Furthermore when Goku lures Janemba down to hell we hear him say Janemba is affecting every dimension in creation. Going off that Janemba would be classified as a universe buster. Not in one spontaneous attack mind you, but a over time buster, like how we agreed Omega Shenron is.

I believe when Goku went SSJ3 he gave Janemba when of the most brutal beatdowns hes ever done so in terms of Fat Janemba, Goku stomped him with ease in SSJ3.

[Brodes]

I totally hate it. it's so ridiculous. SSJ forms are linked to emotions, anger. everyone who tranformed to Super Saiyajin has a reason.

Because children don't at all have uncontrollable emotions.

[Insertclevername]

I have no problem with it. It just adds to the insanity that is the Boo arc.

[goku the krump dancer]

I too think that sometimes the math gets too ridiculous at certain points in a discussion. Everything characters powers seem to inflate and deflate at weird points during a battle or piece of dialog but that can be summed up to Ki Control and I think just about every character has extreme mastery over their own chi.

Besides it almost always seems like a character either gets seriously nerfed or bloated in order to for a fan to make their power level list make as much sense as possible.

Vegeta said it best- "We Saiyans (or any character rather) can't be reduced to numbers."

[TheGmGoken]

Vegeta said it best- "We Saiyans (or any character rather) can't be reduced to numbers."

Their age can .

[DoomieDoomie911]

I think that the whole form was overused. Super Saiyan was supposed to be this super special, "once every thousand years" type of thing, but it turned into almost a standard. All in all, it worn out its welcome, in my opinion.

[TheGmGoken]

I think that the whole form was overused. Super Saiyan was supposed to be this super special, "once every thousand years" type of thing, but it turned into almost a standard. All in all, it worn out its welcome, in my opinion.

Most people have an issue with SSJ kids because Gohan,Trunks(anime),Goku, and Vegeta all worked so hard for it.

[DoomieDoomie911]

I think that the whole form was overused. Super Saiyan was supposed to be this super special, "once every thousand years" type of thing, but it turned into almost a standard. All in all, it worn out its welcome, in my opinion.

Most people have an issue with SSJ kids because Gohan,Trunks(anime),Goku, and Vegeta all worked so hard for it.

That's a good point that I didn't even think about. I really don't think that Goten or Trunks (Chibi) should have ever became a Super Saiyan.

[DBZ Mick]

I think that the whole form was overused. Super Saiyan was supposed to be this super special, "once every thousand years" type of thing, but it turned into almost a standard. All in all, it worn out its welcome, in my opinion.

Most people have an issue with SSJ kids because Gohan,Trunks(anime),Goku, and Vegeta all worked so hard for it.

I still don't think Gohan and Trunks worked hard for it. Only Goku and Vegeta did.

Trunks barely trained and just got angry when Gohan died.

Gohan...maybe. His was somewhat similar- Just picture Freeza killing me. Blam...

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

The kids getting Super Sayain was a plot necessity- everyone understands this.

What I don't understand about it is how we're supposed to be believe the two can so readily eclipses Gohan when the three of them are in the same generation of Sayains. Naturally I refuse to believe going gold modifies your gametes. That's as much of a cop-out as tail-lessness being a genetic possibility when a pure-blood sayain is involved- a flimsy scientific wrapping paper on Toriyama's not thinking about it.

When you look at what Goten and Trunks actually do, all they're doing is stacking multipliers on top of each other to make up for the fact that 50x not much is still not much, particularly given the level of power creep within the Buu arc. Yet the only way these multipliers can work is if Goten and Trunks have significantly greater powers than Gohan could have ever gotten in any hypothetical training at the same age from the get go. You can argue Trunks carries the weight, having actually put himself through his dad's gravity training, which is what I like to believe, but that's a rationalization, not a justification.

This isn't complaining about random androids being stronger than random aliens who are stronger than gods, this is complaining about how one couple made two babies, one of which could kill Nappa- heck, maybe Vegeta- in one shot at the age his predecessor could only just match him after wilderness training, a near-death battle and a latent power-up from the resident god- with almost no formal training (Not forgetting Chi-Chi). That doesn't add up.

[ABED]

How do you figure the Cyborgs or Freeza qualify as "random"?

I do agree that Goten and Trunks were as strong as they were for the sake of the story. The thing is, they didn't have to be that strong for the idea of fusion to work.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

How do you figure the Cyborgs or Freeza qualify as "random"?

I think it was Hujio's signature a while back.

[ABED]

How do you figure the Cyborgs or Freeza qualify as "random"?

I think it was Hujio's signature a while back.

I can't find it.

[Saiga]

Are you talking about my signature, which has Herms' quote?

On topic, I have no problem with it. It reminds me of when Goku performed the Kamehameha after his first time seeing it, when it took Roshi 50 years to develop the technique. Dragon Ball is like that. Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans at a young age is to show how much faster they're developing than their seniors were at the same age.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Are you talking about my signature, which has Herms' quote?

That. And now I feel embarrassed something awful.

On topic, I have no problem with it. It reminds me of when Goku performed the Kamehameha after his first time seeing it, when it took Roshi 50 years to develop the technique. Dragon Ball is like that. Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans at a young age is to show how much faster they're developing than their seniors were at the same age.

I think it comes down to that same quote- there are some things you willingly accept as ridiculous, why do you stop just because the numbers get bigger?