Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
ringworm128 wrote:Two wrongs don't make a right. Killing someone because they killed someone is still killing, everyone should have the right to live no matter how bad they are. However it was one of those "kill or be killed" things they couldn't just put Cell in prison, there was no other way.
It does when the wrong is the right and the right is the wrong.
In the name of Justice it was necessary to prevent another evil from being born. Considering he was programmed to absorb to people and destroy the earth it was the right decision.
Cell is like a predator he would have attacked anyone Trunks and Krillin were just "protecting themselves and human kind from another predator who base instinct is to absorb people" I seen no problem in the death of the cell in the tank.
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear Leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering - Yoda
I use to be a adventurer like you,till I took an arrow in the knee - Generic Skyrim Guard
Lord Exor wrote:Cell was never programmed per se. He was genetically engineered to possess instinctual--albeit nebulous in certain respects--desires. That doesn't necessarily mean he will evolve evil traits.
Almost the same basic thing though. He was created with an inherent desire to fulfill his goal of perfection. That was his instinct, and sure, him doing the things that he would do would be acting on instinct, but it would still be the same. He has the ruthlessness and desire to conquer that Freeza's family does, he has that need to fight till the very end the way the Saiyans do. He will do whatever he can to get more powerful, and seeking out perfection is the only way to do that.
If they let little fetus Cell grow up and be born, then he would still do everything in his power to absorb 17 and 18, because that's his instinct. There would be no stopping that.
I suppose you could attempt to reason with him and convince him that there are other ways to become powerful, Vegeta was able to fight his instincts and become an Earthling himself. If that didn't work, you could use force to keep him away from the Androids, keep him imprisoned or what have you, which would be similar to imprisoning someone because of their uncontrollable destructive instincts.
Cell was programmed to absorb 17 and 18, if they let cell alive cell would eventually return but it might be in an stronger version as the bee that collects cell for Cell might be able to collect cells from main buu and even Bills which would make cell stronger
Lord Exor wrote:Cell was never programmed per se. He was genetically engineered to possess instinctual--albeit nebulous in certain respects--desires. That doesn't necessarily mean he will evolve evil traits.
Almost the same basic thing though. He was created with an inherent desire to fulfill his goal of perfection. That was his instinct, and sure, him doing the things that he would do would be acting on instinct, but it would still be the same. He has the ruthlessness and desire to conquer that Freeza's family does, he has that need to fight till the very end the way the Saiyans do. He will do whatever he can to get more powerful, and seeking out perfection is the only way to do that.
If they let little fetus Cell grow up and be born, then he would still do everything in his power to absorb 17 and 18, because that's his instinct. There would be no stopping that.
I suppose you could attempt to reason with him and convince him that there are other ways to become powerful, Vegeta was able to fight his instincts and become an Earthling himself. If that didn't work, you could use force to keep him away from the Androids, keep him imprisoned or what have you, which would be similar to imprisoning someone because of their uncontrollable destructive instincts.
Cell had no desire to conquer. In fact, once he attained his perfect form he began to carve his own path and cogitate upon what Dr. Gero may have meant for him. He arrived at the conclusion that he was a weapon, and that like any weapon, he should be utilized for destructive purposes.
Because this mental state was achieved through rumination, it is entirely feasible to reason with Cell. He wasn't a (presumably congenital) psychopath like Gero or Frieza.
"My dear friend, how can I make this even more painful for you? I could crush your hands, rip off both of your ears, or maybe I'll just smash in your tiny little cranium. Ehehehehehehehe."
—Frieza
I think we are perhaps applying a bit too much thought to the situation. Does anyone really think Trunks is a bad person or did something bad for killing Cell?
JulieYBM wrote:I think we are perhaps applying a bit too much thought to the situation. Does anyone really think Trunks is a bad person or did something bad for killing Cell?
There is a 163-page thread in the "Fan-Created Works" section that is dedicated to assigning the character's random numbers.
If the forum can allow that, then it should allow a discussion like this.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
So, some argue that Cell shouldn't be blamed for what he did, since he was made that way, right? Well, let me ask you guys this...
#16 was purely mechanical, and yet, he defies his programming at multiple points, grows to love the planet, and even sacrifices his life for what is right at the end, despite all of these things being impossible realistically. Cell, on the other hand, despite possessing much more humanity than #16, and not even being purely mechanical, delights in being a living nightmare, to the point where he even outright states that he gets a kick out of seeing "The terror that I inspire on peoples faces!".
So within the context of DBZ, where even pure robots can change, I'd have to say...yeah, Cell deserved what he got.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
Fionordequester wrote:So, some argue that Cell shouldn't be blamed for what he did, since he was made that way, right? Well, let me ask you guys this...
#16 was purely mechanical, and yet, he defies his programming at multiple points, grows to love the planet, and even sacrifices his life for what is right at the end, despite all of these things being impossible realistically. Cell, on the other hand, despite possessing much more humanity than #16, and not even being purely mechanical, delights in being a living nightmare, to the point where he even outright states that he gets a kick out of seeing "The terror that I inspire on peoples faces!".
So within the context of DBZ, where even pure robots can change, I'd have to say...yeah, Cell deserved what he got.
Correct me if I was wrong, but I thought #16 was just programmed to kill Goku? And I'm pretty sure #16 was staying true to that word.
Dabooyaka wrote:Gingertown's genocide is enough to warrant a death sentence.
And yet another person who didn't read this thread through.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
Dabooyaka wrote:I read it fine. Cell killed Trunks, and everyone in Gingertown. Why wouldn't he deserve a death sentence? ?
He's talking about the Cell that Trunks and Krillin killed when they went to Gero's lab. I made the same mistake.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Okay I can understand how some of the earlier posters in this thread made a misconception here, but it's page 3 and it's been established several times that we are talking about the Baby Cell in Gero's Lab. Stop trolling people.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
How is it trolling when people genuinely don't know which version of Cell was being discussed in the first place?
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Mayuri Kurotsuchi wrote:"In this world, nothing perfect exists. It may be a cliche after all but it's the way things are. That's precisely why ordinary men pursue the concept of perfection, it's infatuation. But ultimately I have to ask myself "What is the true meaning of being perfect?" and the answer I came up with was nothing. Not one thing. The truth of the matter is I despise perfection! If something is truly perfect, that's IT! The bottom line becomes there is no room for imagination! No space for intelligence or ability or improvement! Do you understand? To men of science like us, perfection is a dead end, a condition of hopelessness. Always strive to be better than anything that came before you but not perfect! Scientist's agonize over the attempt to achieve perfection! That's the kind of creatures we are! We take joy in trying to exceed our grasp, in trying to reach for something that in the end, we have to admit may in fact be unreachable!"
Kid Buu wrote:Cell technically didn't do anything wrong, and it was already established that Gero's creations in Goku's timeline were not as evil as they were in other timelines. Therefore do you think it was politically incorrect to have killed Cell?
He killed Trunks was trying to kill Gohan, had already blown up himself with Goku and intended on destroying the world.
and that is just in his perfect form... In his his non perfect form he absorbed town after town, woman, children, everyone.
Just edit the title to "Was it immoral to kill Larval Cell."
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kid Buu wrote:
Would #16 have allowed such anti-pacifist behavior to be condoned? I know he too wanted to kill Goku (out of sheer respect to the man who created him), but he loved the birds man.
He loved them birds more than Alfred Hitchcock did.
16 might have stopped the androids from hurting anyone, and even fought them to keep them from doing any real damage. Grabbed them and bashed their heads together like in the Three Stooges until they behaved.
As for Cell...well, unlike the androids, Cell didn't look human so that's a strike against him right there. I guess they could have raised him to not want to eat people. Just like how Piccolo was a decent guy that wasn't quite a murderous demon-lord anymore and when fully grown, was introduced saving a mother and her kid. If Goku hadn't been dropped on his head, wasn't the implication that he would have destroyed the human race?
Krillin should have spoken for saving Cell, like he did for the rest of the androids. Raised it like his son. Just to annoy Trunks, who even at the end was only grudgingly accepting of the androids not being evil and murderous.
She/Her 
