Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
sintzu wrote:can you provide a source that says that ? cause the wiki states that pan is a year yonger
The part about the wiki being unreliable having already been addressed, they used the mistaken date I discussed. Probably because Bra looks so much older in GT. Regardless, they went with the incorrect year. Here's Julian discussing the matter:
SaiyaJedi wrote:Pan is officially a year older than Bra. It's never stated in the series itself, but the guidebooks have Pan's birth year as Age 779, and Bra's as Age 780. (Battle of Gods takes place in Age 778.)
At the same time, there is good reason for confusion. An error in Daizenshuu 7 (not corrected in Chōzenshū 4) lists Bra's birth year as "778" in her biography, even though it's 780 on the timeline. Everywhere else, including the GT Perfect Files, uses 780, so we can take that as her "official" birth year.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
Couldn't they have just replaced SSJG with the return of Gogeta? That might have explained how Goku and Vegeta had a much easier time fusing in GT than in Fusion Reborn. That and it would be a lot better overall than pimping some unimpressive new super saiyan form we're likely never to see again.
Barunks wrote:Couldn't they have just replaced SSJG with the return of Gogeta? That might have explained how Goku and Vegeta had a much easier time fusing in GT than in Fusion Reborn. That and it would be a lot better overall than pimping some unimpressive new super saiyan form we're likely never to see again.
Then they couldn't hype up Beers as the strongest in Z- or even the strongest villain, really. If you actually intend Gogeta to win that is.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote: Then they couldn't hype up Beers as the strongest in Z- or even the strongest villain, really. If you actually intend Gogeta to win that is.
Technically he would still be the strongest seeing as Fusion warriors don't exist normally and might not count.
SSJ Gotenks somehow impressing Birus more than Ultimate Gohan. Makes me think Gohan was supposed to just be an SSJ.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:SSJ Gotenks somehow impressing Birus more than Ultimate Gohan. Makes me think Gohan was supposed to just be an SSJ.
Birus gave opportunity to Goten and Trunks to become Gotenks. Birusu did not know about fusion so it's normal to be a little bit surprised with Gotenks.
Birusu was really angry with Mr Boo and he never paid attention to Gohan, even when he turned into Ultimate.
dbzfan7 wrote:SSJ Gotenks somehow impressing Birus more than Ultimate Gohan. Makes me think Gohan was supposed to just be an SSJ.
Birus gave opportunity to Goten and Trunks to become Gotenks. Birusu did not know about fusion so it's normal to be a little bit surprised with Gotenks.
Birusu was really angry with Mr Boo and he never paid attention to Gohan, even when he turned into Ultimate.
He said Gotenks had a good fighting sense. This from the two kids who aren't nearly as trained as much as Gohan was.
Also Mr. Satan somehow doesn't remember Dende even though he was with him after he was picked up from the desert.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:SSJ Gotenks somehow impressing Birus more than Ultimate Gohan. Makes me think Gohan was supposed to just be an SSJ.
Birus gave opportunity to Goten and Trunks to become Gotenks. Birusu did not know about fusion so it's normal to be a little bit surprised with Gotenks.
Birusu was really angry with Mr Boo and he never paid attention to Gohan, even when he turned into Ultimate.
He said Gotenks had a good fighting sense. This from the two kids who aren't nearly as trained as much as Gohan was.
Also Mr. Satan somehow doesn't remember Dende even though he was with him after he was picked up from the desert.
Its Mister Satan, I doubt he remembers his own boot size.
Did they ever explain where the hell Bills/Birusu/Beers/BillyBobThorton was while the Kaioshin were being slaughtered at the hands of Kid Buu? Him being suspiciously absent while his fellow gods are being taken out sounds like a pretty big inconsistency to me.
Barunks wrote:Did they ever explain where the hell Bills/Birusu/Beers/BillyBobThorton was while the Kaioshin were being slaughtered at the hands of Kid Buu? Him being suspiciously absent while his fellow gods are being taken out sounds like a pretty big inconsistency to me.
As far as I know, they don't explicitly say where he was, but I'd just assume he was having one of his cat naps during that time. And given how fearful the Kaios are of him, I don't think they're on great terms to begin with, so he probably wouldn't have bothered going to save them anyway.
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Barunks wrote:Did they ever explain where the hell Bills/Birusu/Beers/BillyBobThorton was while the Kaioshin were being slaughtered at the hands of Kid Buu? Him being suspiciously absent while his fellow gods are being taken out sounds like a pretty big inconsistency to me.
He was sleeping. And I don't think he gives a shit about the other gods, or anyone in general.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Barunks wrote:Did they ever explain where the hell Bills/Birusu/Beers/BillyBobThorton was while the Kaioshin were being slaughtered at the hands of Kid Buu? Him being suspiciously absent while his fellow gods are being taken out sounds like a pretty big inconsistency to me.
He was sleeping. And I don't think he gives a shit about the other gods, or anyone in general.
Not even his own teacher Whis?
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Barunks wrote:Did they ever explain where the hell Bills/Birusu/Beers/BillyBobThorton was while the Kaioshin were being slaughtered at the hands of Kid Buu? Him being suspiciously absent while his fellow gods are being taken out sounds like a pretty big inconsistency to me.
He was sleeping. And I don't think he gives a shit about the other gods, or anyone in general.
Maybe he gives a shit about Whis, but Whis doesn't need Beers' protection.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Or he could even possibly fear Whis, since there's a good chance Whis really is the guy who's stronger than Beers. Given how calmly he carries himself normally, who knows what that guy's actually capable of if he lets go...
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I have to agree, I'm not sure he'd help out the Kaioshin, even if he was awake.
Birus' job is to destroy things, and he's both capricious and lazy in nature at times. You need to be humble, appeal to him and earn his respect if you want to get off his radar, but even that doesn't seem to always work. I mean, he went to Kaio's to play games and ended up destroying the planet of a friend during a temper tantrum. Birus just doesn't seem much like they type to care about such things and I don't think he'd hesitate to kill a Kaio(shin) under the right circumstances either. Whis is the only character I think is completely safe from him. Not only because he probably has a deeper respect for his martial arts master, but also because Whis is stronger than him to begin with.
Gyt Kaliba wrote:Or he could even possibly fear Whis, since there's a good chance Whis really is the guy who's stronger than Beers.
There isn't really a question about it. The fourth Chozenshu says outright that Whis is the strongest guy Birus knows of.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
Gyt Kaliba wrote:Or he could even possibly fear Whis, since there's a good chance Whis really is the guy who's stronger than Beers.
There isn't really a question about it. The fourth Chozenshu says outright that Whis is the strongest guy Birus knows of.
Didn't know about that, I was just thinking of the slightly vague (though it's still pretty clear what it means) dialogue that's at the end of the film. So my bad.
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