The problem with identifying SSJ2

[sintzu]

Even if (which isn't implied anywhere) Kibito didn't restore all of his power, he later went on to eat a senzu and still displayed Super Saiyan. So it's not because he's lacking in Chi.

i forgot about that so the only reason could be that he can't control it like what MalikArcanum said

[MalikArcanum]

i think that's because he changed his art style a bit cause vegeta and goku in ssj also have sharper hair in the buu saga then they did in the cell-frieza sagas

Yes, but even before the tournament, in the Saiyaman era, Gohan's SSJ1 hair was a lot less defined, and it had that extra piece of hair in front.

Case in point:

Spoiler:

SSJ1 Gohan in the Saiyaman Saga.

Spoiler:

SSJ1 Gohan in the Tournament Saga

Spoiler:

SSJ2 Gohan in the Tournament Saga

Spoiler:

An apparently SSJ1 Gohan during his fight with Dabura.



It really seems like he forgot the differences & just went with a generalized SSJ design for him from then on. From what I know of him I doubt he was paying that much attention to it anyway.


Also, your point about Goku & Vegeta really doesn't hold water when you look at pictures like this:

Spoiler:

That SSJ1 Goku is clearly different from the SSJ2 portrayal, while those distinction in Gohan, which were initially present, eventually disappear over time.


And, finally, there's this:

Spoiler:

The first was SSJ1, & the second SSJ2. There's not a real clear delineation between the two from the hair perspective, when there was before.

[sintzu]

i think that's because he changed his art style a bit cause vegeta and goku in ssj also have sharper hair in the buu saga then they did in the cell-frieza sagas

Yes, but even before the tournament, in the Saiyaman era, Gohan's SSJ1 hair was a lot less defined, and it had that extra piece of hair in front.

Also, your point about Goku & Vegeta really doesn't hold water when you look at pictures like this:

Spoiler:

i know wich means he changed his style at the tournament

i wasn't comparing ssj goku to ssj2 goku i was comparing goku's ssj style through out the series

frieza and cell :

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8KmyX0-S2Uk/T ... mgmax=2000

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oyMLvgF7caU/T ... mgmax=2000

buu :

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GTaMPOHetss/T ... mgmax=2000

there's more detail in the hair in the buu saga and the same goes for gohan and vegeta wich means the way the hair looks has nothing to do with what form they are in

[Dr. Machismo]

because it's the same thing : gohan in the manga had a ssj aura and no elctricity around his body wich makes him a ssj yet for some reason you and a lot of fans debate if he was a ssj2 or not

it not being said dosen't mean it's not posible

That has nothing to do with what I said about Vegeta.

[MalikArcanum]

You just completely missed the point of everything I said, & resorted back to the same circular logic you have been using for pages now. This is going nowhere.

[sintzu]

You just completely missed the point of everything I said, & resorted back to the same circular logic you have been using for pages now. This is going nowhere.

when i say ssj goku has diffrent hair in the buu saga then he did in the frieza-cell sagas you respond by saying there isn't a diffrenc between goku's hair in his ssj-ssj2 yet somehow i missed the point ?

[TheGmGoken]

Please don't, we don't need a debate. I'm gonna stop here.

Wish this happened

[sintzu]

because it's the same thing : gohan in the manga had a ssj aura and no elctricity around his body wich makes him a ssj yet for some reason you and a lot of fans debate if he was a ssj2 or not

it not being said dosen't mean it's not posible

That has nothing to do with what I said about Vegeta.

ok if you say so

[Dr. Machismo]

because it's the same thing : gohan in the manga had a ssj aura and no elctricity around his body wich makes him a ssj yet for some reason you and a lot of fans debate if he was a ssj2 or not

it not being said dosen't mean it's not posible

That has nothing to do with what I said about Vegeta.

ok if you say so

Oh, wait nevermind. I understand what you're saying. Vegeta was drawn as an SS2, so he was an SS2. Gohan was drawn as SS, he's SS.

[sintzu]

Oh, wait nevermind. I understand what you're saying. Vegeta was drawn as an SS2, so he was an SS2. Gohan was drawn as SS, he's SS.

thank you

[Dr. Machismo]

Oh, wait nevermind. I understand what you're saying. Vegeta was drawn as an SS2, so he was an SS2. Gohan was drawn as SS, he's SS.

thank you

But it's still debatable because since Gohan was shown as SS2 earlier, he should have used SS2 against Buu and Dabura.

[sintzu]

Oh, wait nevermind. I understand what you're saying. Vegeta was drawn as an SS2, so he was an SS2. Gohan was drawn as SS, he's SS.

thank you

But it's still debatable because since Gohan was shown as SS2 earlier, he should have used SS2 against Buu and Dabura.

goku told trunks that he couldn't control ssj at first and he had to train in it to be able to so maby cause gohan hasen't done any training in ssj2 he can't use it any time he wants wich makes sense based on what goku said

[Dr. Machismo]

goku told trunks that he couldn't control ssj at first and he had to train in it to be able to so maby cause gohan hasen't done any training in ssj2 he can't use it any time he wants wich makes sense based on what goku said

But he could use it against Kibito

[sintzu]

goku told trunks that he couldn't control ssj at first and he had to train in it to be able to so maby cause gohan hasen't done any training in ssj2 he can't use it any time he wants wich makes sense based on what goku said

But he could use it against Kibito

but didn't against buu and dabura wich means he can't use it any time he wants

[Dr. Machismo]

but didn't against buu and dabura wich means he can't use it any time he wants

He transformed easily with Kibito and was using it to fight

[90sDBZ]

Well here's my view on the subject. I personally think he was just SS1. My main reason for this is that it clearly couldn't have been just Toriyama forgetting to add lightening. It's not only the Dabura fight but also outside Buu's shell and again much later when he pulls out the Z Sword that there's no trace of lightening. Toriyama was clearly consistent with the no lightening thing for Gohan from the Dabura fight onwards.

I know some like to say it was just his way of making Goku and Vegeta look stronger but why would he need to do that with the Z Sword? By then Vegeta was dead and Goku was standing around doing nothing. Plus at this point of the story Gohan was supposed to be making his big comeback and was probably still intended to be the hero so there'd be no reason for Toriyama to try and make him appear weak.

Also I know this isn't official or anything but Tenkaichi 1 on the PS2 mentions in Gohan's Profile that he never went SS2 again after the Tournament. It also suggested that the lack of training made the form difficult for him to maintain. I just thought that might be worth mentioning as the makers of that game did seem to be pretty aware of the manga also mentioning that the 2 voice fusion thing was Toriyama's idea.

[Fionordequester]

Also I know this isn't official or anything but Tenkaichi 1 on the PS2 mentions in Gohan's Profile that he never went SS2 again after the Tournament. It also suggested that the lack of training made the form difficult for him to maintain. I just thought that might be worth mentioning as the makers of that game did seem to be pretty aware of the manga also mentioning that the 2 voice fusion thing was Toriyama's idea.

Of course, then there's Daizenshuu 7, which came out afterwards and stated he was SSJ2 against Dabura. So even supplementary material contradicts each other.

[RandomGuy96]

I wouldn't even count a video game for the purposes of any debate, unless you think Mr. Satan > Raditz > Super Vegetto > Buuhan > Gohan > Buuhan.

The only real official statement says he was a SS2. That is Daizenshuu 7. Another statement from the same issue indirectly says the same thing, when it says that Dabra has a battle power equal to Cell.

[Kaboom]

Like it or not, Daizenshuu #2 also indicates that high school age Gohan only used Super Saiyan 2 in Volume 37, not 38 when he fought Dabra. So even the same series of guidebooks are contradictory on the matter.

[TheGmGoken]

i wouldn't even count a video game for the purposes of any debate

But most video games character BIO are accurate with minor mistakes.