This kid claims :
"Broly was stated to be so strong that the guy who made him said he was the strongest until movie 12 where janemba took over"
"After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times." - Takao Koyama
So accordingly, Broly was so strong yet he managed to be defeated by SSJ2 Gohan and his family which even SSJ3 is stronger than. What's up with the contradiction here?
Broly the strongest until Janemba?
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OWmyDragonBallz
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
Okay, let's take it like that:
Movie 9:
Bojack - Certaintly not stronger than Broly, one punch from base Goku hurt him so much.
Movie 10:
Broly himself
Movie 11:
Bio Broly which seemed pretty lame to begin with.
So yeah, I see no problem in that statement.
Movie 9:
Bojack - Certaintly not stronger than Broly, one punch from base Goku hurt him so much.
Movie 10:
Broly himself
Movie 11:
Bio Broly which seemed pretty lame to begin with.
So yeah, I see no problem in that statement.
Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
Yeah if we are talking just movies (and I think he was) I don't see a problem with it. Even if you count the game footage with Hatchiyack, they were talking movie 8 Broly and I think movie 10 is stronger (and I think they only said maybe stronger for Hatchiyack compared to Broly). Counting the manga and anime then no, Buu and SS3 Goku are for sure stronger.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
M8 Broli is definitely stronger than Merged #13, who is stronger than any movie villain before him. Bojack seems to be at Perfect Cell's level, so, we can't tell if Bojack is stronger or weaker than Broli. I'll say that Bojack is stronger because he is the villain of the next movie, but not much stronger. M10 Broli is stronger than he was before, and stronger than SS2 Gohan, so he is stronger than Bojack as well. Bio-Broli is a clone of M10 Broli, so he should be as strong as M10 Broli, if not stronger (since he is a Bio-Warrior). And Janenba was stronger than SS3 Goku, so he was much stronger than Broli & Bio-Broli.
That was Toei bullshit.Nightstar1994 wrote:Bojack - Certaintly not stronger than Broly, one punch from base Goku hurt him so much.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
If we are talking only movie villains, yes.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Stark the lone wolf
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
M10 Broly>Bojack>>M8 Broly
Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
The problem is kids use that line for the villains that appeared in the manga, too...
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
Movies then yes.
Movie 9 - Stronger than Bojack who I think is weaker than Cell
Movie 10 - Broly
Movie 11 - Broly
Movie 12 - Janemba.
Not that hard to believe. Now going by the manga then no. Just no. He became irrelevant as soon as Goku turned SSJ2 and Vegeta turned Majin. Always thought Akira Toriyama always followed the next villain is stronger rule
Movie 9 - Stronger than Bojack who I think is weaker than Cell
Movie 10 - Broly
Movie 11 - Broly
Movie 12 - Janemba.
Not that hard to believe. Now going by the manga then no. Just no. He became irrelevant as soon as Goku turned SSJ2 and Vegeta turned Majin. Always thought Akira Toriyama always followed the next villain is stronger rule
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
I wouldn't say irrelevant. SS2 Gohan isn't that much weaker than SS2 Goku & Vegeta.TheGmGoken wrote:He became irrelevant as soon as Goku turned SSJ2 and Vegeta turned Majin.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
SSJ2 Kid Gohan isn't but SS2 Gohan(Adult is). I forgot to mention him.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I wouldn't say irrelevant. SS2 Gohan isn't that much weaker than SS2 Goku & Vegeta.TheGmGoken wrote:He became irrelevant as soon as Goku turned SSJ2 and Vegeta turned Majin.
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Hellspawn28
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
I believe Bojack is stronger then DBZ Movie 8 Broli because I remember he took a direct kick from SSj2 Gohan who was completely bloodlust. I think DBZ Movie 10 Broli is stronger but still a bit weaker then SPC and Bio Broli is around Imperfect Cell level at least.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
I still don't think so. Gohan had lost hope against Broli so much, that he didn't even considered his rage boost as an option to beat him. His only hope was the lava.TheGmGoken wrote:SSJ2 Kid Gohan isn't but SS2 Gohan(Adult is). I forgot to mention him.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I wouldn't say irrelevant. SS2 Gohan isn't that much weaker than SS2 Goku & Vegeta.TheGmGoken wrote:He became irrelevant as soon as Goku turned SSJ2 and Vegeta turned Majin.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
Gohan didn't kick Bojack. He punched a hole in him. Then Bojack cancelled out Gohan's KamehamehaHellspawn28 wrote:I believe Bojack is stronger then DBZ Movie 8 Broli because I remember he took a direct kick from SSj2 Gohan who was completely bloodlust. I think DBZ Movie 10 Broli is stronger but still a bit weaker then SPC and Bio Broli is around Imperfect Cell level at least.
Toei made this film correct? They needed a way for Goku to save the day.I still don't think so. Gohan had lost hope against Broli so much, that he didn't even considered his rage boost as an option to beat him. His only hope was the lava.
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PerfectFreeza
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
I don't think his statement has anything to do with their power.I mean, that would make Bio Broly stronger than Bojack.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
This isn't an answer for an in-universe discussion.TheGmGoken wrote:Toei made this film correct? They needed a way for Goku to save the day.I still don't think so. Gohan had lost hope against Broli so much, that he didn't even considered his rage boost as an option to beat him. His only hope was the lava.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
True...but what I said is true.This isn't an answer for an in-universe discussion.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
SS2 Gohan was considered "pathetic" by pre-Majin Vegeta, who explicitly said that the gap between him and Goku was the same as it was at the Cell Games. So the difference between Gohan and Majin Vegeta/Goku was extremely significant.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I wouldn't say irrelevant. SS2 Gohan isn't that much weaker than SS2 Goku & Vegeta.TheGmGoken wrote:He became irrelevant as soon as Goku turned SSJ2 and Vegeta turned Majin.
Anyway, it seems obvious to me that the comment was talking about films. Isn't this where the writer mentioned that new film villains are always stronger than the last ones, while mentioning Bio-Broly as the one exception? In the context of the movies, the line would make sense. For me:
Janemba >>>>> Super Perfect Cell = or > Movie 10 Broly > Perfect Cell > Bojack > Movie 8 Broly = Bio-Broly.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Hellspawn28
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
I would rank the main DBZ movie villains in power it would be:
Birus
Janemba (Post transformation)
Hirudegarn (Post transformation)
Janemba's original form
Hirudegarn
Movie 10 Broli
Bojack (Post transformation)
Movie 8 Broli
Bojack
Bio Broli
Super #13
Metal Coola
#13
Coola (Post transformation)
Coola
Lord Slug (Post transformation)
Lord Slug
Tullece (After eating the furit)
Dr. Wheelo
Tullece
Garlic Jr. (Post transformation)
Garlic Jr.
Birus
Janemba (Post transformation)
Hirudegarn (Post transformation)
Janemba's original form
Hirudegarn
Movie 10 Broli
Bojack (Post transformation)
Movie 8 Broli
Bojack
Bio Broli
Super #13
Metal Coola
#13
Coola (Post transformation)
Coola
Lord Slug (Post transformation)
Lord Slug
Tullece (After eating the furit)
Dr. Wheelo
Tullece
Garlic Jr. (Post transformation)
Garlic Jr.
Last edited by Hellspawn28 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
Me rating movie villains and their film counterparts in descending order:
Beers
Gohan-Buu
Hirudegarn
Gotenks-Buu
Super Buu
Super Janemba
Fat Janemba
Fat Buu
Super Perfect Cell
Movie 10 Broly
Dabra
Perfect Cell
Bojack
Bio-Broly
Movie 8 Broly
Imperfect Cell
Super 13
Metal Cooler
Android 17/18
Android 13
Cooler (transformed)
Lord Slug (giant)
Freeza (100%)
Turles (post fruit)
Freeza (first form)
Wheelo
Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)
Raditz
Garlic Jr.
Beers
Gohan-Buu
Hirudegarn
Gotenks-Buu
Super Buu
Super Janemba
Fat Janemba
Fat Buu
Super Perfect Cell
Movie 10 Broly
Dabra
Perfect Cell
Bojack
Bio-Broly
Movie 8 Broly
Imperfect Cell
Super 13
Metal Cooler
Android 17/18
Android 13
Cooler (transformed)
Lord Slug (giant)
Freeza (100%)
Turles (post fruit)
Freeza (first form)
Wheelo
Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)
Raditz
Garlic Jr.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Broly the strongest until Janemba?
Vegeta is just acting like Vegeta. I'm sure the difference is significant, but not extremely significant, since Dabra & Kaioshin treat Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan like they are in the same category, and Goku even considered Gohan for Fusion. LSS Broli however seems to be much stronger than SS2 Gohan, to the point that Gohan was almost beaten by him in a minute, and Gohan's hits also barely made Broli move.RandomGuy96 wrote:SS2 Gohan was considered "pathetic" by pre-Majin Vegeta, who explicitly said that the gap between him and Goku was the same as it was at the Cell Games. So the difference between Gohan and Majin Vegeta/Goku was extremely significant.
In other words, LSS Broli's & SS2 Gohan's gap in power seems to be much greater than the gap between the SS2 Goku & SS2 Gohan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.