About Raged SS2 Vegeta: I believe that he surpassed SS3 Goku, but not by much. So, he is nowhere near SS Gotenks, or even Ultimate Gohan IMO. And since it lasts for such a short time, and Boo isn't the type of the opponent that can did quickly, I don't think he can beat any of his forms.
Also, Gohan was Ultimate against Beers. What we saw in promotional material, and what fans speculate is irrelevant. The final product has Ultimate Gohan, and the writer confirms that he was intended to be all along. I also don't see how the story says that Gohan was a Super Saiyan or a Super Saiyan 2 against Beers.
Miira vs Cell
Miira vs Majin Boo
All of their forms. All we know about Miira is that he is much stronger than Piccolo & Future Trunks from DBO.
The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Pantalones
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Hmm... "much stronger than Piccolo and Future Trunks" seems like it would at least leave a pretty big gap for him to still be a lot weaker than any form of Buu. Not so sure about Cell. I know Piccolo at least should've gotten stronger (even if not by much) after the Cell saga, and Trunks probably would've kept training at least some after going back, so DBO's even-further-future Trunks could be stronger.. but it's possible neither of them ever caught up with Perfect Cell's full power (even if they passed the Cell Jr. level or Perfect Cell's suppressed levels that we saw during the fights with Vegeta/Trunks and then Goku) or even got all that close, especially if DBO's Trunks still only has SSj and never reached SSj2... so there could still be a pretty significant gap between them and Cell. He could only be equal to Perfect Cell's full power, or he could be weaker than Perfect Cell if Piccolo and Trunks haven't improved much.
If DBO's Trunks managed to unlock SSj2 and Miira is still much stronger than him, then he's got to be above full-power Perfect Cell. Probably still weaker than Super Perfect Cell though, I guess? And Buu is still way too much for him.
In either case, though, he'd definitely be able to beat Imperfect Cell or 2nd-form Cell with little to no effort if he's stronger than post-Cell-Games Piccolo and Future Trunks.
Just going by power level in relation to Piccolo and Trunks, anyway. Without knowing exactly what Miira is capable of (beyond just a general range of power) it's hard to say if there'd be some way he might be able to beat an even stronger opponent.
If DBO's Trunks managed to unlock SSj2 and Miira is still much stronger than him, then he's got to be above full-power Perfect Cell. Probably still weaker than Super Perfect Cell though, I guess? And Buu is still way too much for him.
In either case, though, he'd definitely be able to beat Imperfect Cell or 2nd-form Cell with little to no effort if he's stronger than post-Cell-Games Piccolo and Future Trunks.
Just going by power level in relation to Piccolo and Trunks, anyway. Without knowing exactly what Miira is capable of (beyond just a general range of power) it's hard to say if there'd be some way he might be able to beat an even stronger opponent.
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Pantalones
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I think 16, 17, and 18 would beat 13, 14, and 15 if they all had equal power. #16 would have data on all previous models I'm pretty sure (he seemed to have a built-in database of all of the Z-fighters as well as all of Gero's creations minus Cell), so he'd be able to inform his side about everything the earlier-model androids would be capable of. Plus, #16's Hell's Flash and #17's barrier (which #18 might have as well, though we never saw her use it) were more impressive than anything the 7th-movie trio showed. Plus, #14 and #15 (#13 doesn't seem to have this problem) seemed pretty fragile in comparison to the later-model Androids, fighting pretty much evenly with Vegeta and Trunks for a while (so much so that Vegeta was worn out and dropped out of Super Saiyan immediately after finishing off his Android) but still getting blown up with one good hit. #16 and #17 at the very least are much more durable when fighting equal opponents (see #17 vs. Piccolo, and #16 vs. Imperfect Cell); it's hard to say about #18 since we never saw her with an opponent who was actually on her level, but I'd guess she'd be similar to #17 in that way.
And if all else fails, one or both of the twins could just set of their bomb and wipe out the other side instantly while #16 flies off into space and survives due to being completely mechanical and not having to breathe.
And if all else fails, one or both of the twins could just set of their bomb and wipe out the other side instantly while #16 flies off into space and survives due to being completely mechanical and not having to breathe.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Majin Vegeta vs South Kaioshin
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I'm going to go with Vegeta here, I think South Kaioshin is perhaps the most overrated character in the entire series. I don't think he has to be all that strong.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Vegeta. SSJ Vegeta is enough to kill this Kaioshin.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Overrated would be Broly, Vegetto, and Gogeta.Mjb1985 wrote:I'm going to go with Vegeta here, I think South Kaioshin is perhaps the most overrated character in the entire series. I don't think he has to be all that strong.
I think South kai should be around SSJ2 Kid Gohan level. So the fight will be the same with Vegeta having a slight lead. So pretty much the fight goes on forever and ever. Then Vegeta either launches a big final attack or they beam struggle.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
South Kaioshin stomps. Kaioshin said that Majin Boo "somehow" absorbed South Kaioshin, which IMO means that Kaioshin found it strange that Majin Boo managed to absorb him. The fact that S. Kaioshin Boo doesn't wear South Kaioshin's upper clothes also means to me that his clothes were destroyed in their battle, meaning that he survived some big blasts from Boo. So, I believe that South Kaioshin is equal or slightly stronger than Pure Boo.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Majin Vegeta vs South Kaioshin
As for why he never drew out the Z-Sword, he did try to pull it when he was younger & weaker, but never bothered to try again years later, because there was no reason to do it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Just made me realize. Boo wore the same pants as the Supreme Kais.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
..... How about... Getting stronger? Crazy I know.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:As for why he never drew out the Z-Sword, he did try to pull it when he was younger & weaker, but never bothered to try again years later, because there was no reason to do it.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Majin Vegeta vs South Kaioshin
It's ridiculous to think he did not try to pull it when Buu was killing the other Kaioshins.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
South Kaioshin one-shots him.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Majin Vegeta vs South Kaioshin
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
The Z-Sword was supposed to be the strongest weapon ever made, not that it would make the user stronger.Zombie wrote:..... How about... Getting stronger? Crazy I know.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I think I was not clear.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The Z-Sword was supposed to be the strongest weapon ever made, not that it would make the user stronger.Zombie wrote:..... How about... Getting stronger? Crazy I know.
You said he tried and couldn't do it when he was young and weak right? They asked why he would try again.
I meant why wouldn't he try when he gets older and stronger. Seriously the way Kaioshin talks about the sword implies it was his only hope to defeat Buu, hell he implies to Gohan that if he knew about the Saiyans he would have brought them to the sword before going after Babidi.
Why wouldn't South Kaioshin try again when Buu appeared? He was not the first to face him.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I'm not sure what to think. I feel the initial Majin Buu should have access to South Kaioshin's and Dai-Kaioshin's energy off the bat. When Majin Buu started to whale on Vegeta, he accessed the energy of Pure Buu through anger. I honestly don't feel South Kaioshin should be THAT strong. The way I see it, Buu absorbed him because he was the strongest person he ever fought. He didn't absorb him because he had trouble with him, he absorbed him because he knew he could get stronger by absorbing him. Here is how I see this:
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,600,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku: 8,000,000,000
Initial Majin Buu: 12,000,000,000(Gohan's energy almost filled half of Buu's power)
Majin Buu(Angry to the Point of Splitting): 36,000,000,000
Pure Evil Buu: 27,000,000,000
Good Buu: 9,000,000,000
Evil Buu: (27,000,000,000 + 9,000,000,000) x 5 = 180,000,000,000
Pure Buu: 30,000,000,000
South Kaioshin: 7,000,000,000
Buu(South Kaioshin absorbed): (30,000,000,000 + 7,000,000,000) x 5 = 185,000,000,000
Dai-Kaioshin: 5,000,000,000
Majin Buu: (185,000,000,000 - 5,000,000,000) / 5 = 36,000,000,000 -> 12,000,000,000(Suppressed by Dai-Kaioshin's purity)
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,600,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku: 8,000,000,000
Initial Majin Buu: 12,000,000,000(Gohan's energy almost filled half of Buu's power)
Majin Buu(Angry to the Point of Splitting): 36,000,000,000
Pure Evil Buu: 27,000,000,000
Good Buu: 9,000,000,000
Evil Buu: (27,000,000,000 + 9,000,000,000) x 5 = 180,000,000,000
Pure Buu: 30,000,000,000
South Kaioshin: 7,000,000,000
Buu(South Kaioshin absorbed): (30,000,000,000 + 7,000,000,000) x 5 = 185,000,000,000
Dai-Kaioshin: 5,000,000,000
Majin Buu: (185,000,000,000 - 5,000,000,000) / 5 = 36,000,000,000 -> 12,000,000,000(Suppressed by Dai-Kaioshin's purity)
Mr Buu: 12,000,000,000
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Youtube channel:
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
By the time he had gotten strong enough, there was no reason for him to try because there wasn't any thread around for him to need this. Even against Boo, he was already strong enough to defeat him (IMO), had Boo not absorbed him.Zombie wrote:I think I was not clear.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The Z-Sword was supposed to be the strongest weapon ever made, not that it would make the user stronger.Zombie wrote:..... How about... Getting stronger? Crazy I know.
You said he tried and couldn't do it when he was young and weak right? They asked why he would try again.
I meant why wouldn't he try when he gets older and stronger. Seriously the way Kaioshin talks about the sword implies it was his only hope to defeat Buu, hell he implies to Gohan that if he knew about the Saiyans he would have brought them to the sword before going after Babidi.
Why wouldn't South Kaioshin try again when Buu appeared? He was not the first to face him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
So you have South being like what? 40? 100? times stronger than the rest of the shins?
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TheGmGoken
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Maybe he got Grand Kai training xDZombie wrote:So you have South being like what? 40? 100? times stronger than the rest of the shins?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Around 11 times stronger than East Kaioshin. I have East Kaioshin equal with 70% SS Goku, and South Kaioshin around SS3 Goku.Zombie wrote:So you have South being like what? 40? 100? times stronger than the rest of the shins?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
South Kaioshin wins.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I don't think South Kaioshin has anything for any of the Saiyans. Super Saiyan Gohan probably can easily handle him imo. The Kaioshins don't appear to be very strong imo. The word " somehow " does not effect my thinking here at all. It's quite easy to absorb people much stronger than yourself. Super Buu did it to Gohan and Gotenks, while Buuhan did it to Ssj Vegetto. So the comment has nothing to do with strength imo.