Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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TheGmGoken
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by TheGmGoken » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:28 pm
RandomGuy96 wrote:Kid Buu wrote:Piccolo VS SSJ Goten Buu arc.
A lot of people think Goten is stronger than Piccolo here, but Piccolo has much superior skills and techiniques. Who takes it?
Remember Piccolo's attempt to fight Imperfect Cell? Where Cell tanked his strongest attack and took him out with one punch?
That's what happens here, with Goten as Cell.
I can only imagine the rage fans would have had that happen. Imagine Goten just tanking that shit and coming out looking like this
.
I would love it as Goten is my favorite character. But fans would have a internet rage saying they quit watching DBZ had this happen
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:39 pm
Kid Buu wrote:Piccolo VS SSJ Goten Buu arc.
A lot of people think Goten is stronger than Piccolo here, but Piccolo has much superior skills and techiniques. Who takes it?
Piccolo wins.
SSJ Goten: 1,050,000,000
SSJ Goten(Minimalist list): 375,000,000
Piccolo: 1,200,000,000
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Son Edo
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by Son Edo » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:19 am
Super Saiyan Goten post rosat defeats Piccolo.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:29 am
Base Trunks (EoZ) vs 100% Freeza
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:31 am
Zombie wrote:Base Trunks (EoZ) vs 100% Freeza
No base saiyan has a chance at ever surpassing Freeza. Even Goku in BOG, who according to Toriyama is the pinnacle of Goku's strength, was still weaker. Trunks didn't even train; he'd gain little extra strength and would still be one-shot material to non-buff Freeza.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:34 am
Yet Birusu said Goku will get stronger.
I respectfully disagree with AT here.
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:38 am
Zombie wrote:Yet Birusu said Goku will get stronger.
I respectfully disagree with AT here.
Characters are fallible. The author is essentially omniscient for the purposes of the story.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:42 am
When the material contradicts what the author is saying, you know you have a problem.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:46 am
dbzfan7 wrote:Muten Roshi (21st TB)/(22nd TB) vs Tao Pai Pai
21st TB Roshi can only beat Taopaipai with a Max Power Kamehameha. 22nd TB Roshi beats him without going Max Power.
Kid Buu wrote:Piccolo VS SSJ Goten Buu arc.
Goten wins, but not easily.
Zombie wrote:Yet Birusu said Goku will get stronger.
I respectfully disagree with AT here.
Since the manga & Toriyama state/imply all the time that Goku can not get much stronger from that point, I think that Beers is afraid of Goku & Vegeta if they get stronger & turn Super Saiyan Gods, or train after absorbing the SSG realm.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:57 am
Maybe, I'll laugh my ass off if a sequel is made and Goku is indeed stronger in base.
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TheGmGoken
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by TheGmGoken » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:00 am
Zombie wrote:Maybe, I'll laugh my ass off if a sequel is made and Goku is indeed stronger in base.
Well in 7 YEARS of otherworld training Goku barely got a good boost compared to his 1 year of training in Otherworld. x at the max. SO his gains are getting smaller and smaller to the point it's doesn't seem like they're getting stronger.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:04 am
Zombie wrote:Maybe, I'll laugh my ass off if a sequel is made and Goku is indeed stronger in base.
I'm not saying he can't turn stronger
at all. I'm saying that he can's get significantly stronger in a short time. He said that he reached his limits in the Cell Games, when he was less than 2 times weaker than Gohan. After 7 years of extreme training in the AfterLife with Kaio, he didn't even get twice stronger, and barely managed to surpass Raged Gohan. Then, after 10 years of extreme training on Earth (and by going to Kaio as well, as we saw in BoG), he considered the possibility of losing to Oob, who was as strong as Pure Boo, which implies that he didn't get much stronger. And then, we have Toriyama saying what he says.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:07 am
Training gains are inconsistent. Piccolo gain in 1 year more than he gained in 5 on Earth. Same for the Humans.
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TheGmGoken
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by TheGmGoken » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:31 am
Zombie wrote:Training gains are inconsistent. Piccolo gain in 1 year more than he gained in 5 on Earth. Same for the Humans.
Goku's is pretty consistent to be honest.
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KentalSSJ6
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by KentalSSJ6 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:38 am
Zombie wrote:Maybe, I'll laugh my ass off if a sequel is made and Goku is indeed stronger in base.
I know its from a movie but didnt Gohan one shot Freeza in Fusion Reborn while in base form?
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Kid Buu
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by Kid Buu » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:43 am
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Zombie wrote:Maybe, I'll laugh my ass off if a sequel is made and Goku is indeed stronger in base.
I know its from a movie but didnt Gohan one shot Freeza in Fusion Reborn while in base form?
He could have been Mystic though.
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rereboy
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by rereboy » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:50 am
Gohan was mystic. He didn't turn SSJ on that movie.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:02 am
Zombie wrote:Training gains are inconsistent. Piccolo gain in 1 year more than he gained in 5 on Earth. Same for the Humans.
The gains the fighters make depend on what kind of training they do. When doing extreme training under special conditions, they grow much stronger. When they do hard training in normal conditions, the gains are much smaller. Goku, however, realized his limits in Cell arc, and this was the first time that he made such small gains for the training he did.
rereboy wrote:Gohan was mystic. He didn't turn SSJ on that movie.
He wasn't. He didn't have any of the Ultimate's characteristics, Ultimate hadn't appeared yet in the anime, and the reason he didn't turn Super Saiyan was because he didn't fight any strong guy.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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rereboy
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by rereboy » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:06 am
I was thinking about the next movie, sorry. I have no idea then.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:09 am
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Zombie wrote:Maybe, I'll laugh my ass off if a sequel is made and Goku is indeed stronger in base.
I know its from a movie but didnt Gohan one shot Freeza in Fusion Reborn while in base form?
He one shot Freeza, whom wasn't at 100% power. I have Gohan at 90,000,000 in M12, so it's not hard to believe he owned a suppressed Freeza.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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