Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)

[RandomGuy96]

No, they were budging Broly all the time, and he definitely seemed pissed. That combined punch is just the only one that made him vomit. It was also implied they would've been able to beat him alone if they hadn't had to rescue the people at the lab.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm, he got budged by Goten and Trunks.

This happened only once, when they both punched him at the same time & place when going all out. Since this was the combined power of 2 Super Saiyans, the hit was equal to a hit from a Super Saiyan 2.

Equal to a SSJ2 Gohan? Hell no. Goten and Trunks also fared a lot better against LSSJ Bio Broly than they did against SSJ Broly. I suggest you watch the fight again, hell C-18 is able to budge Broly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wvae6GK2og

[DBZGTKOSDH]

They don't appear in M11.

That's whY I said it lol. I'm saying Toei is not 100% stupid at times. I think why Gohan wasn't there was because of overkill. Hell they didn't even use Goku. That's saying A LOT

Goku & Gohan didn't appear because they wanted to make a movie where Goten & Trunks are the main stars.

No, they were budging Broly all the time, and he definitely seemed pissed. That combined punch is just the only one that made him vomit. It was also implied they would've been able to beat him alone if they hadn't had to rescue the people at the lab.

Most of the time they budged Broli was when he wasn't expecting their hits. Otherwise, he was staying still like a rock. And there is no way they would manage to beat him, since he was too strong for them (they were covered with scratches after fighting for a half minute).

Equal to a SSJ2 Gohan? Hell no. Goten and Trunks also fared a lot better against LSSJ Bio Broly than they did against SSJ Broly.

When did I say Super Saiyan 2 Gohan? I thought I only said Super Saiyan 2.

It also doesn't make sense for Bio-Broli to be weaker than Broli. He is a clone of him, with all his memories, abilities, and power, and his power should be amplified even more, since Bio-Men are stronger than normal humans.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm, Gohan has everything to do with this. Gohan couldn't move Broly an inch without turning into a SSJ2. Again, Goten and Trunks fared better against M11 LSSJ Broly than they did against M10 SSJ Broly. The writing is on the wall, especially since C-18 got in a good shot. That goop definitely made him weaker. Also, clones aren't always equal to their original counterparts.

[Kakashi]

Chapter: 492 (DBZ 298), P10.6
Context: after Piccolo blows up the entrance to the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “…You truly are strong…Unfortunately, not even Gotenks there could defeat you…However, no matter how strong you may be, it is now impossible for you to escape here, for the rest of your life…”

SSJ Gotenks is the strongest character despite Evil Boo and stronger than SSJ3 Goku

As for the Daiz, it can mean Base Gotenks (Post) > Vegeta and the others > Base Gotenks (Pre) > Vegeta

[TheMightyOzaru]

That doesn't really prove anything. Not even Gotenks could defeat you can be interpreted as the strongest person ALIVE couldn't beat you.

[Kakashi]

That doesn't really prove anything. Not even Gotenks could defeat you can be interpreted as the strongest person ALIVE couldn't beat you.

This is completely out of context

I doubt if Vegeta was still alive Piccolo would have said the same despite Vegeta being no match for Fat Boo

It means SSJ Gotenks is stronger than anyone else before

[TheMightyOzaru]

In your opinion =/. There are multiple ways this can be interpreted.

[Darkprince410]

That doesn't really prove anything. Not even Gotenks could defeat you can be interpreted as the strongest person ALIVE couldn't beat you.

This is completely out of context

I doubt if Vegeta was still alive Piccolo would have said the same despite Vegeta being no match for Fat Boo

It means SSJ Gotenks is stronger than anyone else before

If you were to go by that reasoning, then you'd have to also believe that Ssj3 Goku was stronger than Ssj3 Gotenks and Gohan after his power up, because Vegeta says this during Goku's fight with Pure Buu.

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

It's the same general context, as Goku is the only one alive that's capable of fighting Buu, but we know there are stronger people that are dead that easily could have if they weren't.

[Mjb1985]

Ssj Gotenks Pre could have beaten Fat Buu. Ssj Gotenks seems to be at least around Ssj3 Goku's level and Ssj Gotenks Post is without a doubt ( imo ) the strongest person alive or dead at the time of Piccolo's statement.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't think SS Gotenks has to be stronger than SS3 Goku. It's certainly plausible, but it's not a must or anything. I personally have him weaker, only surpassing Goku when he gains SS2, then he heads into the realm of overkill with SS3. He doesn't really need to be stronger than Goku just to beat Fat Buu.

Fat Buu-
--Initial- 6
--Power Up 1- 9
--Power Up 2- 12
--Splitting- 60

Gotenks
--SS (pre)- 19.5
--SS (post)- 26
--SS2- 39
--SS3- 78

Goku-
--SS2- 8.1
--SS3- 32.4

Yeah, I use smaller multipliers for him as well. Mostly because of the Daiz lines on Fat Buu. Gotenks' relative boosts are half of what they would be for a normal, non-fused saiyan; so x1.5 as opposed to x2 for SS2, and x2 as opposed to x4 for SS3.

[Mjb1985]

I only said Post was without a doubt superior to Goku. Pre can be in the general vicinity.

[RandomGuy96]

I only said Post was without a doubt superior to Goku. Pre can be in the general vicinity.

And I said that I don't think he is. Not getting the point here.

[Mjb1985]

Oh I thought you meant Pre. I don't see how Post wouldn't be. What makes you think Post is weaker than Goku?

[RandomGuy96]

Oh I thought you meant Pre. I don't see how Post wouldn't be. What makes you think Post is weaker than Goku?

That's just how he scales for me, and I don't really see any evidence that he is; there is a tiny bit of evidence that pre is stronger, but it's nothing hard.

[Mjb1985]

Gotenks Pre was stated to be stronger than Goku numerous times, why wouldn't Post be.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Goku says he told Boo someone stronger than him would appear and that's it. The idea of Gotenks being able to destroy Boo was tossed around plenty of times. The only thing noted about Super Saiyan Gotenks is that his Chi was incredible and nothing more.

[RandomGuy96]

Gotenks Pre was stated to be stronger than Goku numerous times, why wouldn't Post be.

Goku told a rampaging demon who is only appeased by a good fight that Gotenks would be stronger than him. And Buu, as well as everyone else, was still operating under the assumption Fat Buu > Goku. I think that's the only bit of evidence there is, and it can easily be written off. All that's really set in stone is SS Gotenks > Fat Buu.

[Mjb1985]

I don't see how Gotenks could be that incredible if he wasn't at least on Goku's tier.

[Kaboom]

All that's really set in stone is SS Gotenks > Fat Buu.

Even that's debatable, and the guidebook entry the thread to which the thread refers even implies it may not be the case. Just goes to show how wacky and back-and-forth this part of the story is with this kind of stuff and how many different ways it can all be interpreted. Very few things are "set in stone" when it comes to the Majin Boo arc.