Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)

[mAcChaos]

That's like saying Goku was around Freeza's power when he managed to get some hits on Freeza when Freeza was toying around with him and doing his whole "no hands" policy. As in, before Goku went Super Saiyan. Hell, he hit Freeza a ton during that whole fight and the difference between them was enormous.

[dbzfan7]

The Daizenshuu even supports the notion. Gohan freaks out and gets even more frightened when he hears Trunks is just like Goten. Vegeta is pressured so much he actually has to hit Trunks back.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That's like saying Goku was around Freeza's power when he managed to get some hits on Freeza when Freeza was toying around with him and doing his whole "no hands" policy. As in, before Goku went Super Saiyan. Hell, he hit Freeza a ton during that whole fight and the difference between them was enormous.

When he could hit Freeza, Freeza was suppressed to around Goku's level. When he raised his power to 50%, Goku was hopeless.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Daizenshuu even supports the notion. Gohan freaks out and gets even more frightened when he hears Trunks is just like Goten. Vegeta is pressured so much he actually has to hit Trunks back.

Gohan is shocked that Goten is so strong for being so little with very little serious training. Vegeta was caught off guard, and is most likely(and by that I mean 99.99999% sure) suppressed. People look at this statement:

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P9.2-7
Context: as Trunks and Goten fight No.18 in their Mighty Mask costume
No.18: “…He really is a weird bastard…His arms and legs are extremely small for his body…And he’s so unusually strong…”
*they become Super Saiyans*
No.18: “!!”
Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

and think, oh Goten and Trunks are definitely stronger than C-18, but totally disregard the fact that they consider C-18 tough. Yes, at full power Goten and Trunks could very easily dispose of C-18, but they still use a decent Kiai cannon, which tells me, they aren't too far off 18's power level. I should also take the time to point out that Trunks and Goten still find themselves at a disadvantage despite being SSJs. If they were a lot stronger than her, the Mighty Mask get up wouldn't hinder them enough to claim we're still at too big a disadvantage. This is how I see this. Any time Goten and Trunks are complimented, it's never a comparison. The Buu arc likes to throw comparisons around early on, they don't do that anymore with Goten and Trunks. This tells me they are very strong at their age despite very little training, but are not a match for characters like Piccolo. Heck Goku even explicitly expresses that Goten and Trunks aren't that strong:

Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P2.1-6
Context: after Goten and Trunks turn into Super Saiyans
Goku: “Alright! Now then, gather your ki up to your utmost limits. All the way full!”
Trunks: “Hehe…Alrii—iight. Let’s freak ‘em out, Goten.”
Goten: “Yeah…hihihi…”
*they power up*
Piccolo: “Gu…!”
Goku: “Alright, so that’s full?”
Goten: “Huh!?”
Trunks: “Ye-yeah…”

Honestly, if Goten and Trunks were as strong as people like to think they are, I don't think they would think as highly of their brother and father respectively.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

You forgot to mention that #18 considered dangerous Trunks' suppressed Ki Blast, and considered ending their match quickly by disqualifying them, which makes the kids not only above #18, but also above the Super Saiyans pre-RoSaT. Personally, I believe that the kids are stronger than Piccolo, and less than twice weaker than the adult Super Saiyans.

[mAcChaos]

I'm pretty sure she just considers it dangerous because it could hurt innocent people and such and MM seemed like a loose cannon.

[TheMightyOzaru]

You forgot to mention that #18 considered dangerous Trunks' suppressed Ki Blast, and considered ending their match quickly by disqualifying them, which makes the kids not only above #18, but also above the Super Saiyans pre-RoSaT. Personally, I believe that the kids are stronger than Piccolo, and less than twice weaker than the adult Super Saiyans.

Yeah they are dangerous, but not so much that the kids should be considered far above her. The fact that they consider C-18 tough tells me that they aren't too much stronger.

[dbzfan7]

The adults have better training and SSJ2/3/Ultimate over them. Vegeta punches Trunks because he was so pressured. The Daizenshuu supports this. 18 was so frightened of a suppressed ki blast. Gohan said they would surpass him soon if he wasn't careful. Gohan barely manages to block everything. If they were 18's level or lower then they would be able to easily block and avoid them without effort. Just like how Imperfect Cell did to 17 and Piccolo. Yet SSJ Gohan and Vegeta are waaaaaay stronger, and yet have a hard time avoiding their attacks. Unless you consider Gohan to be severely weaker than Goku and Vegeta now who was so impressed with Goten and Trunks.

[RandomGuy96]

It would go more like Goku vs the Ginyus. Gohan could not speed blitz Goten, move so fast Goten couldn't see, or block Goten while not appearing to move. Goten is FAAAAR over 50% Gohan. He'd splatter someone like Piccolo with a single punch. I think he could at least hang with the Cell Juniors.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yeah they are dangerous, but not so much that the kids should be considered far above her. The fact that they consider C-18 tough tells me that they aren't too much stronger.

They call her tough because they had heard stories about her being stronger than their fathers. They can't sense her power to tell how strong she is. Again, she was afraid of a small, suppressed ki blast of Trunks.

I'm pretty sure she just considers it dangerous because it could hurt innocent people and such and MM seemed like a loose cannon.

They are kids, not villains. They fought in the tournament before, and didn't hurt anyone.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The adults have better training and SSJ2/3/Ultimate over them. Vegeta punches Trunks because he was so pressured.

There mere notion that Trunks is even close to Vegeta makes me not take you seriously.

Yeah they are dangerous, but not so much that the kids should be considered far above her. The fact that they consider C-18 tough tells me that they aren't too much stronger.

They call her tough because they had heard stories about her being stronger than their fathers. They can't sense her power to tell how strong she is. Again, she was afraid of a small, suppressed ki blast of Trunks.

She was shocked they had that much power. No where is it stated that she couldn't tank that. It also wasn't entirely small.

[dbzfan7]

It would go more like Goku vs the Ginyus. Gohan could not speed blitz Goten, move so fast Goten couldn't see, or block Goten while not appearing to move. Goten is FAAAAR over 50% Gohan. He'd splatter someone like Piccolo with a single punch. I think he could at least hang with the Cell Juniors.

Hell if they were over 4x weaker as I have seen lists do that, they would be child's play do avoid, and yet they weren't. We would see Gohan maybe say he is Goten is impressive while easily avoiding everything, same with Vegeta, and yet their faces tell a whole other story.

The adults have better training and SSJ2/3/Ultimate over them. Vegeta punches Trunks because he was so pressured.

There mere notion that Trunks is even close to Vegeta makes me not take you seriously.

Because we can't have super prodigies be strong now can we. They should sit in the corner and watch Vegeta cry about Goku again.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Sigh.... When did this very strong kids crap get so popular?

The adults have better training and SSJ2/3/Ultimate over them. Vegeta punches Trunks because he was so pressured.

There mere notion that Trunks is even close to Vegeta makes me not take you seriously.

Because we can't have super prodigies be strong now can we. They should sit in the corner and watch Vegeta cry about Goku again.

I would believe it if it were likely so. It's, however, not. Ohmygosh, he barely hit Vegeta 1 out of 100 punches, he must be close to as strong as a Vegeta who is clearly suppressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RandomGuy96]

There mere notion that Trunks is even close to Vegeta makes me not take you seriously.

Yeah, how dare he follow the official stance rather than making up random bullshit. What an idiot.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There mere notion that Trunks is even close to Vegeta makes me not take you seriously.

Yeah, how dare he follow the official stance rather than making up random bullshit. What an idiot.

You ARE making up random bull shit. How dare I take something the Daizenshuu 2 said with a grain of salt when the story clearly suggest otherwise right?

[RandomGuy96]

You ARE making up random bull shit. How dare I take something the Daizenshuu 2 said with a grain of salt when the story clearly suggest otherwise right?

No, I'm simply following what the guides that you claim to follow said. You're randomly saying that the adult saiyans were suppressed (and apparently can fake sweating on demand, I guess, in Gohan's case) when nothing of the sort was stated and that your word overrides the official stance. Then you're talking down to people for not nitpicking along the exact same lines that you do. Again. And that's bullshit.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

She was shocked they had that much power. No where is it stated that she couldn't tank that.

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P12.4, P13.1
Context: after Trunks’ ki blast explodes
No.18: “Yo-you’ve got to be kidding…That energy bullet had absolutely incredible speed and destructive power…Co-could it be that those squirts have outrageous power?…This is dangerous! I’ve got to settle this fight soon!”

She didn't tank it, she considered it fast & powerful, considered the kids dangerous, and got in a hurry to finish the fight.

It also wasn't entirely small.

It was small.

How dare I take something the Daizenshuu 2 said with a grain of salt when the story clearly suggest otherwise right?

The story suggests that that kids are below the adults, but never suggested that they are far below them or below Piccolo.

[RandomGuy96]

Piccolo also says:

Chapter: 468 (DBZ 274), P12.7
Piccolo: “These two are our only hope…! Th-though it’s a faint hope…”
Note: this is before Fusion is mentioned

He didn't even consider himself a factor. Which goes well with Gohan's line that Goten would surpass him if he's not careful, even though Gohan has SS2 and Goten doesn't.

[TheMightyOzaru]

You ARE making up random bull shit. How dare I take something the Daizenshuu 2 said with a grain of salt when the story clearly suggest otherwise right?

No, I'm simply following what the guides that you claim to follow said. You're randomly saying that the adult saiyans were suppressed (and apparently can fake sweating on demand, I guess, in Gohan's case) when nothing of the sort was stated and that your word overrides the official stance. Then you're talking down to people for not nitpicking along the exact same lines that you do. Again. And that's bullshit.

I'm not randomly assuming they're suppressed. Lets take a look at past events. Vegeta could already train in 300 times gravity in the manga prior to the Cyborgs showing up. Look at the scene where Vegeta and Trunks are fighting. 150 times gravity. Vegeta isn't even trying, he's merely suppressed himself to a state where 150 times gravity can be a workout for him. I'm also not particularly talking down to people. The way you're talking, Goten is factually as strong as Gohan according to you. That's what I'm calling bull shit. If you're merely trying to come off as opinionated, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Piccolo also says:

Chapter: 468 (DBZ 274), P12.7
Piccolo: “These two are our only hope…! Th-though it’s a faint hope…”
Note: this is before Fusion is mentioned

He didn't even consider himself a factor. Which goes well with Gohan's line that Goten would surpass him if he's not careful, even though Gohan has SS2 and Goten doesn't.

They have great potential, so yes a great future they could be.

[mAcChaos]

He probably planned them to go into RoSaT. Which makes me wonder what would have happened if Goku just ignored his time limit on Earth and went into the RoSaT with them.