Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm not using anime logic, if we were to use that, Goku tanked the attack of Hirudegarn, whom was stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

[TheGmGoken]

I'm not using anime logic, if we were to use that, Goku tanked the attack of Hirudegarn, whom was stronger than Ultimate Cohan.

You're not? Then why you say Gohan fought evenly with Gotenks Boo?

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm not using anime logic, if we were to use that, Goku tanked the attack of Hirudegarn, whom was stronger than Ultimate Cohan.

You're not? Then why you say Gohan fought evenly with Gotenks Boo?

Never said they fought evenly, I'm saying Gohan managed to put up a fight.

[RandomGuy96]

Well, Gohan was able to put up a fight against Buutenks, whom is most likely around 1.5 times stronger. I'd say a 2 times difference is good enough.

Nope. In the manga, he got stomped. In the anime, he's just stronger than he is in the manga.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Umm, Buutenks didn't one shot him and Gohan was able to free himself from the Galactic Donuts. Gohan's not exactly a pushover for Buutenks unlike Janenba was for Gogeta.
On a side note, NVM, I'm going back to my minimalist list. I found a way to make Gotten and Trunks decently powerful while having Gotenks weaker than Vegeta prior to the ROSAT .

[Stark the lone wolf]

Gotenks being below vegeta before the ROSAT makes no sense
Base Gotenks appears and it is flat out stated that he is no match for buu
SSJ Gotenks appears and they only questions gotenks speed
It is either that piccolo forgot that power is the most important factor in a fight or he became stupid and forgot how strong buu was

[mAcChaos]

But then you'd be saying SSJ1 Gotenks = SSJ3 Goku.

[RandomGuy96]

Umm, Buutenks didn't one shot him and Gohan was able to free himself from the Galactic Donuts. Gohan's not exactly a pushover for Buutenks unlike Janenba was for Gogeta.
On a side note, NVM, I'm going back to my minimalist list. I found a way to make Gotten and Trunks decently powerful while having Gotenks weaker than Vegeta prior to the ROSAT .

Gogeta couldn't one shot Janemba.

He was a complete pushover. He put up no fight at all while Buu bashed him to pieces. He did no better than Janemba did.

Gotenks being that weak makes no sense.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gogeta did in fact one shot Janenba. He just hit him a couple times for fun. Oh right because changing the Ssj multipliers for fused characters makes more sense than gag character being weaker than Majin Vegeta. Honestly, you should just make Gotenks, Super Buu, and Ultimate Gohan stronger instead of changing up the multipliers.

[RandomGuy96]

Gogeta did in fact one shot Janenba. He just hit him a couple times for fun. Oh right because changing the Ssj multipliers for fused characters makes more sense than gag character being weaker than Majin Vegeta. Honestly, you should just make Gotenks, Super Buu, and Ultimate Gohan stronger instead of changing up the multipliers.

Gogeta clearly wasn't the screwing around type. He was no nonsense. No evidence that he attacked Janemba "for fun".

It does, actually, given SS Gotenks' feats.

SS Gotenks was stated to be stronger than fatso like half a dozen times. You'd have to assume every character got a lobotomy to make that work.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gotenks was NEVER stated to be stronger than Fat Buu. Gogeta isn't the type to mess around? Need I remind you of Gogeta's encounter with Yi Xing Long?

[RandomGuy96]

Gotenks was NEVER stated to be stronger than Fat Buu. Gogeta isn't the type to mess around? Need I remind you of Gogeta's encounter with Yi Xing Long?

Yes, he was. Goku stated it a thousand times, wouldn't shut up about it, and Piccolo never doubted the claim after sensing Gotenks, and had no problem with letting Gotenks fight fatso. He only had problems with base Gotenks fighting fatso or SS Gotenks fighting Super.

GT and Movie 13 Gogeta are different. Besides, it was a facade anyway. Gogeta was stone cold and no nonsense; no evidence of him toying with Janemba exists.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Oh you wanna bring assumptions into this rather than comparisons? Goku couldn't know whether or not he had a chance. I don't think Gogeta was necessarily "toying" with him, it just felt good to knock him around. Remember a bit of Vegeta is in there. That aside though, Janenba couldn't budge Gogeta an inch, whereas Gohan could break out of the Galactic Donuts. The difference between Gogeta and Janenba should be bigger than the difference between Buutenks and Gohan.

[RandomGuy96]

Oh you wanna bring assumptions into this rather than comparisons? Goku couldn't know whether or not he had a chance.

He had seen fusion performed before and could guess the result. Piccolo's reaction clearly shows Goku wasn't bullshitting.

I don't think Gogeta was necessarily "toying" with him, it just felt good to knock him around. Remember a bit of Vegeta is in there.

If he were being Vegeta, he wouldn't end Janemba so quickly and be so stone cold and straight to business.

That aside though, Janenba couldn't budge Gogeta an inch, whereas Gohan could break out of the Galactic Donuts

Which says nothing other than that seven year olds make really shitty attacks.

The difference between Gogeta and Janenba should be bigger than the difference between Buutenks and Gohan.

Gaps are never consistent. Vegeta one-shotted Cui while Buutenks didn't one-shot Gohan, gee I guess that means Gohan's above 75% of Buutenks now.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It's always excuses with you . I guess we're gonna have to let bygones be bygones because I have no intention of having a prolonged argument with you. If you wanna know how Vegeta > Gotenks can work, talk to Kaboom.

[Kaboom]

If you wanna know how Vegeta > Gotenks can work, talk to Kaboom.

Ooooh no. I ain't gettin' dragged into a Gotenks strength "discussion" again. Quick summary of points and I'm gone.

Goku's makes a prediction about Gotenks' power, and predictions are fallible and not 100% fact. Super Saiyan Gotenks was —quite suspiciously— never actually stated, shown, or otherwise confirmed to be stronger than anyone, especially SSJ3 Goku and Majin Boo. The guidebooks dance around the issue, but notably peg Gotenks as weaker than Vegeta before he "leveled up" during his Room of Spirit and Time session. This combined with the aforementioned lack of confirmation of Gotenks' superiority over anyone else leaves a reasonable "out" for the belief that Gotenks wasn't up to snuff without Super Saiyan 3 if anyone favors it. 'Nuff said.

[Stark the lone wolf]

But then you'd be saying SSJ1 Gotenks = SSJ3 Goku.

Nothing contradicts it, goku stated several times that gotenks would beat fat buu and goku knows his shit
He knew what fusion did with two guys way below goten and trunks and was sure a fusion between him and gohan would beat buutenks and elder kai supported it, SSJ Gotenks must have been above fat buu at the least
Piccolo flat out stated that base gotenks was no match for buu
Piccolo only questions ssj gotenks speed instead of telling him he is weak like the last time, piccolo must have gotten a sudden amnesia in order to forget about power
The quote of the daiz is vague as it doesn't mentions which form of gotenks is below vegeta, not by saying the quote says "Vegeta and the others" which could be talking about goku which could be interpreted as Post Rosat Gotenks>Goku>Pre rosat gotenks>Vegeta

[RandomGuy96]

If you wanna know how Vegeta > Gotenks can work, talk to Kaboom.

Yeah no, I'll just get annoyed again.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku know his shit ? He couldn't possibly know if Gotenks had a chance.

If you wanna know how Vegeta > Gotenks can work, talk to Kaboom.

Yeah no, I'll just get annoyed again.

Annoyed by what? The logic presented in opposition to your "un-flawed" point of view? Kaboom's position on this works just fine =/.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Piccolo's the same guy that thought Base Gotenks had a chance against Super Boo

I wouldn't say Gotenks is stronger than Boo just because Piccolo makes a positive comment about his power, though I have no issue with Super Saiyan Gotenks being that strong.