Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Vegeta got special treatment because he deserved that treatment. Plus Watanabe likes Vegeta.
He had no reason to last longer than the others. He had Watanabe shielding.
And I'm perfectly ok with that . Vegeta needs some time to shine for once.
Being a Vegeta fan of course your fine with that .
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Rocketman wrote:It's a scaling fuckup anyway that Goku and Vegeta are treated as more impressive than Gohan.
How so? last I checked everyone got their ass kicked.
If your talking about Beers statement at the end, I see nothing wrong with it. Why praise the lazy idiot with the good inheritance instead of the two hard workers who's stock may not be as large but it keeps improving due to their hard work?
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
Since we know that Beers can beat SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, U. Gohan, and SS3 Gotenks with literally only one finger, and that he is stronger than even Super Vegetto, Beers just hit Gohan & Gotenks harder than he hit Vegeta, that's why he lasted longer.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Since we know that Beers can beat SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, U. Gohan, and SS3 Gotenks with literally only one finger, and that he is stronger than even Super Vegetto, Beers just hit Gohan & Gotenks harder than he hit Vegeta, that's why he lasted longer.
Beers hit hard on Gohan because he was mad against Mr. Boo and Gohan came to disturb him. if I'm mad with someone and you defend him, I will hit you hard too.
In normal circumstances, Beers would do the same on ( finger flick ) rage Vegeta, SSJ3 Gotenks or Ultimate Gohan like you said.
goku the krump dancer wrote:If your talking about Beers statement at the end, I see nothing wrong with it. Why praise the lazy idiot with the good inheritance instead of the two hard workers who's stock may not be as large but it keeps improving due to their hard work?
goku the krump dancer wrote:If your talking about Beers statement at the end, I see nothing wrong with it. Why praise the lazy idiot with the good inheritance instead of the two hard workers who's stock may not be as large but it keeps improving due to their hard work?
Beers doesn't know any of that.
Maybe cause Vegeta and Goku are the main characters now. I know it's out of universe but still. Also Vegeta and Goku are MUCH better fighters.
Zombie wrote:Birusu praised Goku and Vegeta with good reason. They were the strongest fighters in the movie.
No, they weren't. Gohan was stated to be stronger than them in promotional stuff, and Gotenks is stronger as well since Boo arc. He praised them because Goku & Vegeta were the only ones that managed to actually fight, while Gohan & Gotenks didn't really fight.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Have you seen the film? SSJG Goku and Enraged Vegeta are above all the rest. I don't care what a website said. The film was pretty clear who was strongest.
Zombie wrote:Have you seen the film? SSJG Goku and Enraged Vegeta are above all the rest. I don't care what a website said. The film was pretty clear who was strongest.
I'm not talking about Super Saiyan God Goku, I'm (and the promos were) talking about Super Saiyan 3 Goku. And Raged Vegeta isn't necessarily stronger than Gohan, since he was only noted to be stronger than Goku, not Gotenks or Gohan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Zombie wrote:Vegeta actually made Birusu bleed. Gohan couldn't.
Even when he caught Birusu by surprised he couldn't do a thing.
He caught Beers by surprise, and we have seen weaker guys hurting stronger guys just because they caught him by surprise. Except if you believe that SS2 Vegeta surpassed Super Vegetto...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Zombie wrote:Birusu was not caught by surprised.... He actually reacted and punched Vegeta first....
He punched Vegeta, and was surprised that he could resist his punch. Then, Vegeta started hitting him, which made him bleed.
Zombie wrote:And no. Enraged Vegeta is not above SSJ Vegetto. That's ridiculous.
Beers is above Super Vegetto though... But then again, Beers was suppressed (he was below 70%, and probably far below than that). Add that he didn't expect Vegeta to resist & react... and you see blood. But I don't believe he surpassed Gotenks or Gohan. Their difference is too big, and he was only stated to be stronger than Goku, who is stated to be weaker than Gohan, and implied to be weaker than Gotenks in the manga.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Zombie wrote:That's the point, nowhere was he caught of guard. Vegeta completely trashed (for a short while tho) a foe who two shotted Gohan.
But he did catch Beers of guard. Watch the scene again. Beers punches Vegeta, and Vegeta resists. Beers is shocked, and he suddenly gets hit by Vegeta multiple times. Beers is caught off guard.
Zombie wrote:Actions > Statements. Birusu mentioning Vegeta over Gohan at the end should be enough.
Beers said that Goku & Vegeta could be threads for him in the future. Gohan & Gotenks weren't mentioned because he didn't get the chance to do anything to impress Beers, unlike Goku & Vegeta. Plus, Beers could be considering Goku & Vegeta as future threats for him if they trained more & got Super Saiyan God.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Zombie wrote:No, Birusu still couldn't do a thing when Vegeta rushed a second time.
He didn't bleed during Vegeta's second rush though. He probably let Vegeta hit him to see his strength.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
. Vegeta needs some time to shine for once.
.
