Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Because Piccolo could't tell if Vegeta or Nappa was stronger. I put up their battle power because I was showing Nappa and Vegeta's power levels. Notice Piccolo could't tell who was stronger.

He couldn't tell because they were relaxed. Notice that both Vegeta & Nappa had to power-up to reveal their true powers (though it seems that the scouters can read their battle power even when they are relaxed).

[dbzfan7]

Naw, he just says, "Next time I'm God! And you'd best co-operate!" Goku replies, "Of course!"

That part is still said. What I'm talking about was stated after that. Goku makes fun of Vegeta and then Vegeta says he surpassed Goku with Goku agreeing at that time he did.

[TheGmGoken]

Unless the subs I'm watching are wrong. The one's I watched had Goku say Vegeta surpassed him at that point.

In them Vegeta says back then I definitely exceeded you. And Goku said without a doubt.

Your subs are fucked up. The one I'm using states what Kasier said

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Vegeta said that he definitely exceeded Goku, and Goku said "yes, without a doubt". At least that's what my subs are saying.

[KaiserNeko]

Naw, he just says, "Next time I'm God! And you'd best co-operate!" Goku replies, "Of course!"

That part is still said. What I'm talking about was stated after that. Goku makes fun of Vegeta and then Vegeta says he surpassed Goku with Goku agreeing at that time he did.

Oh, y'know? Re-watching it, he DOES admit it there.

Hmmm~! Well, as I said... I really have no problem with that.

[dbzfan7]

Unless the subs I'm watching are wrong. The one's I watched had Goku say Vegeta surpassed him at that point.

In them Vegeta says back then I definitely exceeded you. And Goku said without a doubt.

Your subs are fucked up. The one I'm using states what Kasier said

Well what did Vegeta say after he was going to be SSJ God next? Goku and Bulma badger Vegeta on his outburst. What was Vegeta's response.

Hmmm~! Well, as I said... I really have no problem with that.

I still think it was ridiculous. But if your okay with it then then that's cool.

[TheGmGoken]

Unless the subs I'm watching are wrong. The one's I watched had Goku say Vegeta surpassed him at that point.

In them Vegeta says back then I definitely exceeded you. And Goku said without a doubt.

Your subs are fucked up. The one I'm using states what Kasier said

Well what did Vegeta say after he was going to be SSJ God next? Goku and Bulma badger Vegeta on his outburst. What was Vegeta's response.

Ignore my post.

[KaiserNeko]

It's true, Vegeta actually does say, "Back then! I surpassed you!" And Goku does agree, albeit casually. Which leads me to believe either he's trying to placate him or he, too, thinks it was just a spur of the moment thing.

Also, reposting this, because I feel like it was missed:

"4x boost!" "5x boost!"

Why is it impossible, sometimes, to let the drama and excitement just be that? There's an easy explanation that I've listed SEVERAL TIMES, but you'd rather nitpick battle powers and posture over Super Saiyan forms.

Let me put it this way:

One version of Son Goku uses a FULL POWER KAMEHAMEHA on an opponent. It does damage to the opponent. He's exhausted his energy.

A second version of Son Goku uses a 1/4 power Kamehameha on an opponent. It does not do damage. He tries against three more times, but because they're just such low energy, they don't really do any damage. He's exhausted his energy.

Vegeta exhausted his energy in a single barrage. Goku, on the other hand, barely spent any of his power at all.

Boom. Done. Easy, simple explanation.

[TheGmGoken]

Which leads me to believe either he's trying to placate him or he, too, thinks it was just a spur of the moment thing.

Or it was a rival thing. Most of the time in anime-manga rivals have moments like these even though it's not true

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Roshi, Vegeta, and Goku confirmed that Raged SS2 Vegeta surpassed SS3 Goku, and nothing says otherwise, so I'm done.

Besides, Vegeta surpassed Goku for only a few seconds... his new power up doesn't last for very long, while Super Saiyan 3 lasts for 5 minutes.

[TheGmGoken]

Roshi, Vegeta, and Goku confirmed that Raged SS2 Vegeta surpassed SS3 Goku, and nothing says otherwise, so I'm done.

Done with what? I was just saying Roshi just like Piccolo most likely can't compare KI well. Never said that the Vegeta < Goku statement was false.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Done with what? I was just saying Roshi just like Piccolo most likely can't compare KI well. Never said that the Vegeta < Goku statement was false.

I'm not talking specifically to you, I'm referring to those who doubt it (Roshi is wrong, Vegeta is stubborn, and Goku lies to make Vegeta feel better). I'm done with the debate in general, because it's crystal-clear that Vegeta surpassed Goku.

[Saiga]

The problem I have with that, Kaiser, is that it seems you're attributing it entirely to his Galick Gun rather than anything else (or just using a bad comparison). Now, I haven't seen that scene for myself, but everything I've read, including Watanabe's comment, suggests that that's nit the right way to look at it. Until I see the full scene for myself (is it legally available online?) that's the most I can say on that, I suppose.

Your explanation also seems to get pretty close to "why just not think about it too hard?" to me. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

[KaiserNeko]

The problem I have with that, Kaiser, is that it seems you're attributing it entirely to his Galick Gun rather than anything else (or just using a bad comparison). Now, I haven't seen that scene for myself, but everything I've read, including Watanabe's comment, suggests that that's nit the right way to look at it. Until I see the full scene for myself (is it legally available online?) that's the most I can say on that, I suppose.

Your explanation also seems to get pretty close to "why just not think about it too hard?" to me. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

It's not a, "Stop thinking about it and it makes sense." It's more of a, "Sometimes, stories can take a leap in logic to add drama. It's entirely possible that's what happened here." We allow some leaps in logic to slide as long as the results are satisfactory. Not to mention, we're getting caught up in the minutia of battle powers and forms when, really, that just holds back what could be a very powerful, awesome moment in the movie.

And I'm not just talking about his Galick Gun, I'm talking about his entire attack. He rushes Bills with a killer combo and ends it with the Galick Gun. During this moment combo, he was exhausting every bit of his energy. This WORKS for me. I'm okay with that.

The only thing that truly bothers me is Roshi exclaiming anything at all. He never once saw how well Goku handled Bills nor has he ever felt Goku at his best. I'll admit, that was poor writing there.

[Zeshen]

Also: Gohan does NOT turn Super Saiyan. While that WAS a mistake in production, they fixed it.

Well, he still does during the Super Saiyan God ritual, but I personally take it official conformation that Gohan can still go Super Saiyan instead of unleashing the Ultimate power.

While I agree with this, I like to think of the Super Saiyan of just a way for Gohan to become pure (a visual aide if you will) I mean the requirements were for 5 "pure-hearted" saiyans correct? Well you have 4 Super Saiyans ("pure" by one definition or another) and a baby, which is as innocent as you can be and therefore pure. 4 visual "pure" Super Saiyans and a baby.

That's all I think that was, in my opinion.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku says that Vegeta got so strong because he pushed himself too hard to get stronger, which drained him all his strength after a few seconds. So, we do have an explanation. It's not related with Gohan's rage boost at all.

[penguintruth]

SSJ2 Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 Goku makes as much sense as Bardock being a Super Saiyan (HE COULDN'T EVEN BEAT DODORIA FFS).

Yes, that happened in animation, but it shouldn't have, because it's complete nonsense.

[KentalSSJ6]

Look whats done is done. Vegeta has been confirmed to surpass Goku when Bills slapped Bulma. Theres no changing that so why continue to argue about it? Is it really too much to believe he surpassed Goku for a few seconds? By the end of the Buu saga there was barley a gap between them in base form. All Goku really had on Vegeta was SSJ3 anyway so if a SSJ2 Vegeta got a temporary rage boost I can see him surpassing Goku for a few seconds.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SSJ2 Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 Goku makes as much sense as Bardock being a Super Saiyan (HE COULDN'T EVEN BEAT DODORIA FFS).

Bardock got beaten by Dodoria & was caught in the explosion of Planet Vegeta. He healed form all this in EoB, so he most likely got a huge near-death power-up like Goku did after getting beaten up by Vegeta when his body was possessed by Ginyu.

[dbzfan7]

The problem I have with that, Kaiser, is that it seems you're attributing it entirely to his Galick Gun rather than anything else (or just using a bad comparison). Now, I haven't seen that scene for myself, but everything I've read, including Watanabe's comment, suggests that that's nit the right way to look at it. Until I see the full scene for myself (is it legally available online?) that's the most I can say on that, I suppose.

Your explanation also seems to get pretty close to "why just not think about it too hard?" to me. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

It's not a, "Stop thinking about it and it makes sense." It's more of a, "Sometimes, stories can take a leap in logic to add drama. It's entirely possible that's what happened here." We allow some leaps in logic to slide as long as the results are satisfactory. Not to mention, we're getting caught up in the minutia of battle powers and forms when, really, that just holds back what could be a very powerful, awesome moment in the movie.

And I'm not just talking about his Galick Gun, I'm talking about his entire attack. He rushes Bills with a killer combo and ends it with the Galick Gun. During this moment combo, he was exhausting every bit of his energy. This WORKS for me. I'm okay with that.

The only thing that truly bothers me is Roshi exclaiming anything at all. He never once saw how well Goku handled Bills nor has he ever felt Goku at his best. I'll admit, that was poor writing there.

I'm sorry but the explanation doesn't work for me. However..

After the Dream 9 special I learned to put behind any power level problems I would have as they will hinder my experience and fill my brain with negative thoughts. I still enjoyed the film even though I have problems with some scaling. Sure I think the boost is still stupid. But I really love Vegeta's yell. Horikawa provided excellent delivery and I really like how Vegeta deeply cared for Bulma. I asked him at a panel to do Vegeta's song and dance but he said he didn't remember the lyrics.