Dream Cross-Overs with other series

[ABED]

No, I wouldn't consider that Superman story all that dark. Dramatic, sure, but not dark. The final episode of Superman the animated series was grimmer.

Really? The whole "be a soldier at 5 and become a hero!" angle with Gohan, sadistic training regimens that the gunny from FMJ would consider extreme being considered character building, said training regimens enabling Goku to take on entire armies, Gohan being able to shrug off his experiences are good signs that DBZ follows "war is glorious".

Dentists also have a higher than average suicide rate.

Stop using FMJ or Spec Ops. This isn't the military. This is a story where people have super powers and there are aliens for crying out loud, and men can be thrown through mountains and have barely a scratch. To the extent that there's war, it's not about "war is glorious", it's about showing people fighting to protect the things and people they value.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to get that Dragon Ball isn't even remotely the real world with real world physics. The consequences are completely different, thus your comparison to FMJ is assinine.

[Hades]

No, I wouldn't consider that Superman story all that dark. Dramatic, sure, but not dark. The final episode of Superman the animated series was grimmer.

Really? Superman actually dying is "not dark"?

Dentists also have a higher than average suicide rate.

non-sequitur.

Stop using FMJ or Spec Ops. This isn't the military. This is a story where people have super powers and there are aliens for crying out loud, and men can be thrown through mountains and have barely a scratch. To the extent that there's war, it's not about "war is glorious",

It really was. Presenting a whitewashed view of war (worse than Call of Duty, and that's saying something).

it's about showing people fighting to protect the things and people they value.

I guess Captain Walker was the hero of Dubai then?

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to get that Dragon Ball isn't even remotely the real world with real world physics. The consequences are completely different, thus your comparison to FMJ is assinine.

The same could be said about star wars, and we'd still be squicked out by implications of incest. Or Star Trek, and Picard coming to terms with being turned against his own country. Or Warhammer 40K and how the Imperium murders dissidents.

[ABED]

It's not a war story at all. There are fights but it's not even close to being a war story.

The dentist statistic was simply me pointing out that many occupations have higher than average suicide rates. You don't have to be in combat to want to kill yourself, so your statistic says very little. Some people are more well adjusted than others or are more willing to get help if they aren't... Not every war is Vietnam or the middle east. Hell, the middle eastern conflict isn't as complicated as some would have you believe. There were wars such as WW2 where there was clarity of purpose.

Stop bringing up Spec Ops, I've never played the game, I have no context. Spec Ops is intentionally grey, whereas DB is black and white. Vegeta and Freeza are evil. Your "clever" retort about Walker being the hero of Dubai has no merit. I'm guessing Walker had to kill innocents? Goku didn't kill innocent people, he fought great and powerful evil. Goku doesn't do it for the recognition, he fights to protect his loved ones, and because he enjoys a challenge.

The same could be said about star wars, and we'd still be squicked out by implications of incest.

We weren't arguing that, were we? You keep bringing up things like Goku's body should be wrecked, but it's a world of mysticism and Toriyama wrote that Saiyan physiology gets stronger after nearly dying. It's nowhere close to real world physics.

Gohan's sitation is completely different than real world kid soldiers. For one, he's far more powerful than any real world adult, and secondly, the fate of the world doesn't rest on any single kid, whereas in DB, kids like Goku and Gohan have enormous power. They could be hit through a mountain and be okay. There are no real world parallels, the rules are different, the psychology would be different.

[Storm]

I'm just the jaded and cynical dragonball fan. I like it, but I've become more jaded and cynical as I've grown up. Besides, you should play Spec Ops: The Line, since it utterly destroys the Shonen narrative.

ETA: It's the same way a Spec Ops fan can still appreciate Halo/Cod and the like.

Dude, you've mentioned Spec Ops, like, every three posts of yours I've seen. Give it a rest once in a while, yeah?

[Kamiccolo9]

Except, in every other attribute, he is a mary sue ("Purity of heart", HARD MEN decisions never coming back to bite him unlike Vegeta, always gets stronger despite being beaten badly, and perfect beyond perfection).

Seeing as you never responded to my post the last time we had this utterly stupid debate, I'll just repeat myself again here.

I guess that Dora the Explorer is a terrible show for not ever punishing Swiper, the Sneaky Fox. I'm sure that show has warped the minds of the kids who watched it.

Dragon Ball is a child's cartoon. It's not meant to show accurate portrayals of the psychological impact that extreme situations have on the minds of children. It's not meant to show a realistic shift from good to evil with Vegeta. It's not meant to make people think about the long term consequences of their actions. It's not meant to make people dwell upon their mistakes and drown in grief.

What you want IS NOT Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball IS NOT Spec Ops: The Line. Dragon Ball IS NOT Full Metal Jacket. Dragon Ball IS NOT Batman the Animated Series.

Blue's Clues has a talking mailbox for a character. His only purpose is to sit there and have people put mail in him. He lives what would be an enormously torturous and unsatisfying life for a person. Does that mean that Blue' Clues should discuss themes of grief, depression, self loathing, and suicide?

Should Little Bill cover the issue of racism?

In Space Jam, should the movie cover the negative effects of stretching one's arm out to the length that Michael Jordan did in that movie?

Should Beauty in the Beast focus on the theme of bestiality?

Should all of the various vampire movies be banned because they involve necrophilia?

In Pokemon, should the characters be racked with guilt for making animals fight each other and snatching them out of their homes in the wild?

The obvious answer to all of these is OF COURSE NOT! These themes have no place in these shows and movies, just like themes from Spec Ops have no place in Dragon Ball. And if you think that the lack of these things renders Dragon Ball an inferior or harmful product, then I must ask, why are you a fan?

[Hades]

I suppose I was just overthinking on this sort of shit. It's like watching a favourite cartoon, then you get older, watch it again then you start thinking from a more "educated" (for lack of a better term) perspective and it just spoils your appreciation for the cartoon.

By the by, In Pokemon Black & White, they DID go the Spec Ops route somewhat, until they copped out.

[Storm]

Well, this is a forum about an unabashed children's manga and anime series, so...

I mean, I'm not going to post on an Evangelion forum saying how much I dislike satire, deconstruction and psychoanalysis.

[Hellspawn28]

Hell, Osamu Tezuka (The God of Manga/Godfather of Anime) was made honorary chairman of the Superman Fan Club in Japan due to his love for the character back in the day,.

Wow that's something that I didn't know. I always have been told that most American superheros other than Spider-Man never made it big in Japan. X-Men, Batman, Hulk, Spawn, Fantastic Four and Green Lantern never had a big fanbase in Japan from what I've seen. Last night I had a dream of a DBZ vs. JoJo crossover. That's something that I would love to see happen.

[Ringworm128]

From what I've seen U.S comics and cartoons have cult followings in Japan but they're not 100% mainstream, much like animanga in the west.

[Mewzard]

Wow that's something that I didn't know. I always have been told that most American superheros other than Spider-Man never made it big in Japan. X-Men, Batman, Hulk, Spawn, Fantastic Four and Green Lantern never had a big fanbase in Japan from what I've seen. Last night I had a dream of a DBZ vs. JoJo crossover. That's something that I would love to see happen.

Well, Tezuka was around 10 years old when Superman was made, manga was nothing compared to what it became later on (he had a massive role in making manga both as big and as diverse as it ended up being, that's why they called him the God of Manga, he either started or popularized countless genre *Shonen, Shojo, Seinen, and in all sorts of subjects of varied types and maturity levels*).

It would have been going on for several years before the war, so it wouldn't surprise me that it got popular there for a time. Superman's not the only one that's had some popularity: Look at Batman, he ended up staring in several manga, and stuff from America was localized (such as Batman: TAS and probably a few of the movies).

[Kaboom]

I want an animated Cross Epoch, or just any animated DragonBall and One Piece crossover. JUST Dragon Ball and One Piece. No including Naruto and/or Bleach so they don't feel bad, or trying to shoehorn Toriko in there either. Just Goku and Luffy and their respective crews havin' an adventure all their own.

[TheGmGoken]

I want an animated Cross Epoch, or just any animated DragonBall and One Piece crossover. JUST Dragon Ball and One Piece. No including Naruto and/or Bleach so they don't feel bad, or trying to shoehorn Toriko in there either. Just Goku and Luffy and their respective crews havin' an adventure all their own.

I thought there was an animated Cross Epoch. Guess not then

[Cursed Lemon]

I want an animated Cross Epoch, or just any animated DragonBall and One Piece crossover. JUST Dragon Ball and One Piece. No including Naruto and/or Bleach so they don't feel bad, or trying to shoehorn Toriko in there either. Just Goku and Luffy and their respective crews havin' an adventure all their own.

Are you SUUUUURRREEE you don't want to see Goku beat the living snot out of Naruto?

[Dalesy]

I really like that BoG has made this sort of stuff even more plausible, considering the whole "other universes" thing. Personally, I would love to see a crossover with Yu Yu Hakusho. I doubt it would prove all that popular being that YYH isn't exactly fresh in the public mind, but I would wet my pants at the prospect.

[TheGmGoken]

Dragonball Z meets Sly Cooper and the gang. Sly and the gang steals the Dragonballs

[Mewzard]

I believe I best put my dream crossover earlier:

I already know my dream God battle:



vs



Super Saiyan God vs God Saint.

But any of the amazing 80s series' would be amazing. Imagine if Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star, one of the Jojo's from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, or Kinnikuman from his named series showed up in the DBZ universe?

Or what about a more formal Dragon Ball x Toriko crossover. Toriko lives in a world that is filled to the brim with powerful, delicious monsters. He'd be in Heaven.

Not to mention, with how insane the characters of Toriko are getting in power, I'd love to see that fight.

Jirou himself would show Kamesennin how a tough old man is done:

Spoiler:

Knocking the entire planet and everything on it (even if briefly) is insane. A freaking giant hurricane was frozen in place.

Not to mention the insanity of Ichiryu vs Midora.

Toriko himself is nothing compared to these guys...but he's still getting insanely strong, what with

Spoiler:

Being able to visualize something happening, and it happening due to leaving an impression on something with his Ultimate Routine, or his increased abilities and combining old abilities like his 70-Fold Fork Nail Punch, 60-Fold Knife Nail Gun, 100-Fold Twin Spiked Punch, 50-Fold Fork Shield, and his Fork Armor.

At the rate Toriko's going...it might pass DBZ levels of insanity, and I'm loving every bit of it.

[Rocketman]

Spoiler:

Knocking the entire planet and everything on it (even if briefly) is insane. A freaking giant hurricane was frozen in place.

Yeah, that makes sense. *rolls eyes* I mean, every time there's a huge earthquake, all weather stops, right?

[Ringworm128]

[Mewzard]

Spoiler:

Knocking the entire planet and everything on it (even if briefly) is insane. A freaking giant hurricane was frozen in place.

Yeah, that makes sense. *rolls eyes* I mean, every time there's a huge earthquake, all weather stops, right?

He's called Knocking Master Jirou for a reason. He's also one of the most powerful Gourmet Hunters on the planet (though he made a point to note he was rusty *he is several hundred years old*).

Besides, by that logic, Toriko couldn't use techniques that burn a billion calories, but he can

Spoiler:

Though after he mastered Food Honor, he was able to remove all wasted effort in his moves to use the minimum amount of calories for a move, letting him do even more crazy powerful moves with the same amount of calories.

As for what Ichiryu pulled when fighting Midora?

Spoiler:

His creation of Minority World, so the minority of particles that act against their normal behaviors become the dominant one, causing Midora's body to stop trying to live (among other things)...that would be impossible as well.

Oh yeah, Dragon Ball and such series are Shonens, where nonsensical insanity is the norm. Next you'll tell me flying through a super-dimensional space and fighting at speeds beyond the speed of light against Thanatos (the God of Death) in Elyseum doesn't make sense.

Blowing up the moon and having no impact on the Earth doesn't make sense. Having a creature who can breathe in space doesn't make sense. But how often do we critique Dragon Ball for such things? We go with the flow man.

[Rocketman]

Fighting beyond the speed of light in Elysium is impossible because in Greek myth, light is infinitely fast.

WRONG ON EVERY POSSIBLE LEVEL *flips board*