BOG inconsistencies/changes

[ZombieVito]

He probably let Vegeta hit him to see his strength.

That doesn't make any sense. He already knew Vegeta's strength a few seconds ago.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He probably let Vegeta hit him to see his strength.

That doesn't make any sense. He already knew Vegeta's strength a few seconds ago.

He wanted to see Super Saiyan God, so he was probably hoping that Vegeta would turn into one.

[ZombieVito]

Doesn't make sense to get owned for that.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Doesn't make sense to get owned for that.

He didn't get owned, he was unscratched & bored after the Gyarik-Ho.

[goku the krump dancer]

If your talking about Beers statement at the end, I see nothing wrong with it. Why praise the lazy idiot with the good inheritance instead of the two hard workers who's stock may not be as large but it keeps improving due to their hard work?

Beers doesn't know any of that.

True but be it that the statement was made at all he was obviously able to make out that there was something special about Goku and Vegeta which he could have gathered based on both his fights with them and his conversation with Goku.

[Saiga]

So, my idea for changes...

Well, I wouldn't have Super Saiyan God or Goku be the hero, but I'm assuming those are both too integral to be changed without a rewrite, so I'll work with that.

Firstly, I'd just leave Kaio's planet out and have Goku fight Beers in Heaven. We don't see much of Heaven, so it'd be a good place for the battle to occur. I'd also give Beers time related powers.

Now I'm just going to skip right to the fighting because I'll need to see the movie to talk about the set up and gags and stuff. However, instead of the Pilaf gang being kids because of a wish on the Dragon Balls I'd have Beers de-age them.

For everyone vs Beers, I would remove Vegeta's rage boost, and have Gotenks and Gohan do more. I would have things proceed mostly the same until Bulma is slapped, at that point Vegeta turns into a Super Saiyan 3 and attacks Beers, impressing him. In this scenario Vegeta surpassed Goku through his training (like the Android arc) but didn't want to reveal Super Saiyan 3 to everyone, and forgot himself when Bulma was slapped. Gotenks decides to turn Super Saiyan 3 because Vegeta did (like movie 12) and Gohan joins the battle. The three of them fight hard, but Beers is still dominating, and then Vegeta runs out of energy and drops back to base. Gotenks and Gohan continue until Gotenks defuses, and Beers decides it'd be fitting if Gohan lost his power like the other two, and undoes the Kaioshin magic on him (I love the form, but it'll make following movies much easier to work with).

Then things proceed and I'd love to fix Super Saiyan God but I have no idea how. I'd probably take out all the pure hearted nonsense and say it just requires 6 Saiyans, at the very least. I also wouldn't have anorexic Goku. We fucking get it, Toriyama, muscles don't make the man. You told us this already, and in a much better way. Anyway...

This is a tentative change, as the explanation we get later might be something I like more, but I think I'd have Beers be responsible for Goku not immediately losing the God power up after the time limit and briefly returning to the form at the end of the fight. Not deliberately, but on a subconsious level. Beers sees Goku drop out of base and feels like the fight could have continued further, and just before his blast overwhelms Goku he briefly laments the destruction of an interesting foe. But I'm not sure about that one until the actual cause of both those things is explained (assuming it will be).

Oh and I'd have Goku put up a worse fight after losing the God powerup, not a better one (haven't seen this for myself, but that was what I was told happened).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

For everyone vs Beers, I would remove Vegeta's rage boost, and have Gotenks and Gohan do more. I would have things proceed mostly the same until Bulma is slapped, at that point Vegeta turns into a Super Saiyan 3 and attacks Beers, impressing him. In this scenario Vegeta surpassed Goku through his training (like the Android arc) but didn't want to reveal Super Saiyan 3 to everyone, and forgot himself when Bulma was slapped. Gotenks decides to turn Super Saiyan 3 because Vegeta did (like movie 12) and Gohan joins the battle. The three of them fight hard, but Beers is still dominating, and then Vegeta runs out of energy and drops back to base. Gotenks and Gohan continue until Gotenks defuses, and Beers decides it'd be fitting if Gohan lost his power like the other two, and undoes the Kaioshin magic on him (I love the form, but it'll make following movies much easier to work with).

I would add Kuririn & Yamcha in the fight (they would get beaten up immediately of course) to this. Though, I'm not sure if I want to see SS3 Vegeta.

Then things proceed and I'd love to fix Super Saiyan God but I have no idea how. I'd probably take out all the pure hearted nonsense and say it just requires 6 Saiyans, at the very least.

The only reason I like the idea of 6 righteous Saiyans and not just 6 Saiyans (BTW, it's righteous, not pure hearted) is because if it was just 6 Saiyans, then anyone would be able to turn into a Super Saiyan God, while with 6 righteous Saiyans, it's difficult because righteous Saiyans are very rare from what we have been told.

[Marco Polo]

Then things proceed and I'd love to fix Super Saiyan God but I have no idea how. I'd probably take out all the pure hearted nonsense and say it just requires 6 Saiyans, at the very least.

The only reason I like the idea of 6 righteous Saiyans and not just 6 Saiyans (BTW, it's righteous, not pure hearted) is because if it was just 6 Saiyans, then anyone would be able to turn into a Super Saiyan God, while with 6 righteous Saiyans, it's difficult because righteous Saiyans are very rare from what we have been told.

It works with Saiyan babies so you only need 1 righteous Saiyan and 5 pregnant Saiyans really.

[Rocketman]

Then things proceed and I'd love to fix Super Saiyan God but I have no idea how. I'd probably take out all the pure hearted nonsense and say it just requires 6 Saiyans, at the very least.

The only reason I like the idea of 6 righteous Saiyans and not just 6 Saiyans (BTW, it's righteous, not pure hearted) is because if it was just 6 Saiyans, then anyone would be able to turn into a Super Saiyan God, while with 6 righteous Saiyans, it's difficult because righteous Saiyans are very rare from what we have been told.

It works with Saiyan babies so you only need 1 righteous Saiyan and 5 pregnant Saiyans really.

6 pregnant Saiyans.

Super God Fetus.

[dbzfan7]

So, my idea for changes...

Well, I wouldn't have Super Saiyan God or Goku be the hero, but I'm assuming those are both too integral to be changed without a rewrite, so I'll work with that.

Firstly, I'd just leave Kaio's planet out and have Goku fight Beers in Heaven. We don't see much of Heaven, so it'd be a good place for the battle to occur. I'd also give Beers time related powers.

Now I'm just going to skip right to the fighting because I'll need to see the movie to talk about the set up and gags and stuff. However, instead of the Pilaf gang being kids because of a wish on the Dragon Balls I'd have Beers de-age them.

For everyone vs Beers, I would remove Vegeta's rage boost, and have Gotenks and Gohan do more. I would have things proceed mostly the same until Bulma is slapped, at that point Vegeta turns into a Super Saiyan 3 and attacks Beers, impressing him. In this scenario Vegeta surpassed Goku through his training (like the Android arc) but didn't want to reveal Super Saiyan 3 to everyone, and forgot himself when Bulma was slapped. Gotenks decides to turn Super Saiyan 3 because Vegeta did (like movie 12) and Gohan joins the battle. The three of them fight hard, but Beers is still dominating, and then Vegeta runs out of energy and drops back to base. Gotenks and Gohan continue until Gotenks defuses, and Beers decides it'd be fitting if Gohan lost his power like the other two, and undoes the Kaioshin magic on him (I love the form, but it'll make following movies much easier to work with).

Then things proceed and I'd love to fix Super Saiyan God but I have no idea how. I'd probably take out all the pure hearted nonsense and say it just requires 6 Saiyans, at the very least. I also wouldn't have anorexic Goku. We fucking get it, Toriyama, muscles don't make the man. You told us this already, and in a much better way. Anyway...

This is a tentative change, as the explanation we get later might be something I like more, but I think I'd have Beers be responsible for Goku not immediately losing the God power up after the time limit and briefly returning to the form at the end of the fight. Not deliberately, but on a subconsious level. Beers sees Goku drop out of base and feels like the fight could have continued further, and just before his blast overwhelms Goku he briefly laments the destruction of an interesting foe. But I'm not sure about that one until the actual cause of both those things is explained (assuming it will be).

Oh and I'd have Goku put up a worse fight after losing the God powerup, not a better one (haven't seen this for myself, but that was what I was told happened).

I don't think we need Birus to undo the Kaioshin ritual or de-age the pilaf gang. Birus doesn't really know how SSJ God works so him knowing how to extend Goku's time doesn't make much sense. I do like Vegeta going SSJ3 instead of that stupid lol boost and he, Gohan, and Gotenks fighting together.

[RandomGuy96]

6 pregnant Saiyans.

Super God Fetus.

Made me think of this:

[KentalSSJ6]

If I could change BoG, id do the following.

*Give Vegeta SSJ3. We have waited enough for it.

*Reduce Bill's power abit. Stronger than Buu or Mystic Gohan? Sure, but Super Vegito? Thats GT territory.

*Remove Super Saiyan God entirely as well as the concept of Godly Ki.

*If SSJG HAS to be in the movie, id make it the "Legendary Super Saiyan" Vegeta always spoke about on Namek. SSJ1-3 could be decreasingly inferior stages with SSJG being the final product. Would also just call it The Legendary Super Saiyan form seeing as Broly isnt canon anyway (thankfully).

*If given SSJ3 Vegeta, id have Bills defeated by either the combined work of SSJ3 Goku and Vegeta or hell, have Gohan take him on. Have Bills threaten Pan's life inside Videl and have Gohan go berserk protecting his unborn child. Other than that id like to have a SSJ3 Gogeta take on Bills. I mean come on, Gogeta deserves to be canon.

[TheGmGoken]

Gogeta deserves to be canon.

He is "canon". He just hasn't appeared.

[hleV]

But he did catch Beers of guard.

Watch the scene again. Beers punches Vegeta, and Vegeta resists. Beers is shocked, and he suddenly gets hit by Vegeta multiple times. Beers is caught off guard.

With that kind of logic, every hit in the series happened because the opponent was caught off-guard. Did Beerus suddenly lower his power after attacking Vegeta?

Spoiler:

If you have Godku stronger than SS (or SS3, even) Vegetto just because of some statement about power realm, and if you're fine with Vegeta getting a rage boost, which was said in the series to be Saiyan-Human hybrid-exclusive, if you're so fine with a movie that arguably has more plotholes than some of the movies that don't even fit into the timeline, then Vegeta's rage boost making him like 1000x (or whatever, enough to make Beerus bleed) stronger than his usual SS2 self isn't so far-fetched.

Gogeta deserves to be canon.

He is "canon". He just hasn't appeared.

With that king of logic, everything is canon just hasn't appeared. You don't even know if Goku & Vegeta's fusion would be named Gogeta or look like Gogeta, so no. Gogeta is non-canon to the manga.

[Jackal puFF]

Well he did slap Bulma.. He had to have been holding back. Remember he flicked Goku with just his finger, in his super saiyan 3 form no less.. And Bulma got all five fingers..

What I'm trying to say is, he punched Vegeta but not with all his might.

[Blade]

Regarding the Bulma-slap:

I think he intentionally restrained from using any sort of force - as with his 'spanking of Gotenks'. Sure, a flick to the head of Goku seems like an attack of minimal effort - but that doesn't mean that he has absolutely no control over how much force he applies in his action - otherwise the mere act of breathing could destroy the entire planet that he stands on.

My biggest problem with Battle of Gods is that it makes no sense - at all. It's almost like to begin with that the introduction of a 'God of Destruction' is an attempt to restore a little perspective and order to the Dragonworld, where the characters are already incomprehensibly powerful. But with the introduction of Super Saiyan God as a re-usable form and Goku's apparent ability to soak up the Godly power in his normal state that is absolutely thrown out of the window. I think 'Super Saiyan God' would have been nice if it was a one-time thing purely for the extents and purposes of the film, like: "We've done the ritual once, and gave Goku a huge temporary power-boost, but now we're unable to ever do it again, and Goku returns back to normal".

The problem now is that whatever movie or story continuation comes of Battle of Gods there will forever be the great white-elephant in the room when the characters find themselves in any sort of danger - 'why not just make one of them a Super Saiyan God?'. It's a huge loose end that I think they really should have tied up - that is, unless of course, the Super Saiyan God form is now the basis for the future of the franchise.

[Zephyr]

If you have Godku stronger than SS (or SS3, even) Vegetto just because of some statement about power realm, and if you're fine with Vegeta getting a rage boost, which was said in the series to be Saiyan-Human hybrid-exclusive, if you're so fine with a movie that arguably has more plotholes than some of the movies that don't even fit into the timeline, then Vegeta's rage boost making him like 1000x (or whatever, enough to make Beerus bleed) stronger than his usual SS2 self isn't so far-fetched.

- A character doing something to power themselves up that makes them more powerful than the most powerful guy from the previous story arc is neither something new or logic-breaking for the series. Yes, that includes Vegetto.

- Rage is also a catalyst for transformation. Half-way transformations are things. Treat Vegeta's rage boost like a half-SSj3 thing, similar to Movie 4's "False Super Saiyan" thing. Sure, that's not necessarily the implication, but it allows the scene to make sense within the very shakily-established "logic" that this built-on-gags series gives the illusion that it's trying to maintain.

The movie is of course not without issues, but SSj God being as powerful as it is, and Vegeta's rage boost, are simply too easy to rationalize, in my opinion, for them to be the big detractors here. The series was built upon a nigh infinite suspension of disbelief, I don't understand how people can really complain that the series doesn't always follow the most stringently regulated rules and ideas.

Battle of Gods there will forever be the great white-elephant in the room when the characters find themselves in any sort of danger - 'why not just make one of them a Super Saiyan God?'. It's a huge loose end that I think they really should have tied up - that is, unless of course, the Super Saiyan God form is now the basis for the future of the franchise.

How is that really much different than fusion? Same concept, only it requires more people there to pull off. If anything, they'd only use it as a last resort, just like with fusion (other than Gotenks of course). You're forgetting that all of the now most powerful characters care too much about their Saiyan pride. Admittedly, I would very much like the form to fully dry up, so to speak, so that the ritual would eventually need to be performed again for Goku to be able to access it again. Though, if it is permanent, it would serve to make GT make a bit more sense, which could be seen as a good or bad thing.

[Blade]

Though, if it is permanent, it would serve to make GT make a bit more sense, which could be seen as a good or bad thing.

It would explain Goku's incredibly high power in GT and it's also consistent with the whole 'borrowing of Saiyan power' that Goku and Baby use in GT - but for Battle of Gods to be anywhere near consistent with GT for starters we have to first accept that Baby, and the opponents that come after him, are more powerful than Bills. Heck, it would even imply that Rildo is on that scale too - which for me makes it incredibly difficult to come to terms with.

[Zephyr]

Very true. That's why I'd like to hope it's not permanent. But even still, utterly asinine power creep like that has been the norm since the very beginning of the series.

[hleV]

↑ If you're not gonna discuss in-universe, what are you even doing here?

Spoiler:

What you're saying is that DB finds excuses for incredible things to happen, but you fail to see that at least in the manga, all (or most) of those things actually follow some logic and can be explained without going "meh, it's shonen, the new villain is always stronger than the previous one, fuck logic".

• Freeza - most powerful being in the universe. No problem with that.
• Androids - while it's hard to comprehend Gero's ability to create such strong artificial beings, we know Dragon World has advanced technology, and that Gero worked hard to make them exactly this strong. It wasn't as though new villains appeared and they're randomly stronger than Freeza because plot, there's a fine in-universe explanation: they were designed to be that strong. (As for simply conquering the world, 1,000 BP should be enough for the androids.)
• Boo - ancient magical being.

Beerus? It's not terrible. He's the most powerful, but exists in some unreachable place and doesn't give a shit about shit.
Super Saiyan God - what the fucking hell. A Saiyan ritual that randomly gives Goku power nearly matching Beerus'? It doesn't make sense from in-universe perspective. I think many people can see that.