The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

It's not "obviously" impossible. We could easily assume Baby Vegeta's power wasn't as big as should have been in ape form having been recently pulverized by SSJ4 Goku. We could assume Vegeta's artificial Bruitz Wave transfer didn't make him as strong as he should have been. We could assume Baby's parasitic nature reduced the effectiveness of the transformation. There are a lot of factors to consider. Also, Baby Vegeta doesn't have to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku in there first encounter. Goku's harsh energy decrease could have been hindrance. Like I said though, power scaling aside, how does 100 times SSJ3(400) make any sense? We could assume SSJ4 is 5,000 times base, sure, but 40,000? That's a bit extreme.

[RandomGuy96]

It's not "obviously" impossible. We could easily assume Baby Vegeta's power wasn't as big as should have been in ape form having been recently pulverized by SSJ4 Goku. We could assume Vegeta's artificial Bruitz Wave transfer didn't make him as strong as he should have been. We could assume Baby's parasitic nature reduced the effectiveness of the transformation. There are a lot of factors to consider. Also, Baby Vegeta doesn't have to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku in there first encounter. Goku's harsh energy decrease could have been hindrance. Like I said though, power scaling aside, how does 100 times SSJ3(400) make any sense? We could assume SSJ4 is 5,000 times base, sure, but 40,000? That's a bit extreme.

Randomly assuming people are not at full power is basically an excuse to dispose with all the hints you're given so you can make up a random number.

I just illustrated how it made sense. If you don't just pull out a theory that assumes he gets different multipliers, then x40,000 is just what you get from stacking the multipliers on him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

All you did was say it fits because power scaling seems to suggest it. You didn't address the fact that SSJ4 SHOULD just be Oozaru x one's full potential, which in Goku or Vegeta's case is, 400 times base.

[TheGmGoken]

It's not "obviously" impossible. We could easily assume Baby Vegeta's power wasn't as big as should have been in ape form having been recently pulverized by SSJ4 Goku. We could assume Vegeta's artificial Bruitz Wave transfer didn't make him as strong as he should have been. We could assume Baby's parasitic nature reduced the effectiveness of the transformation. There are a lot of factors to consider. Also, Baby Vegeta doesn't have to be stronger than SSJ3 Goku in there first encounter. Goku's harsh energy decrease could have been hindrance. Like I said though, power scaling aside, how does 100 times SSJ3(400) make any sense? We could assume SSJ4 is 5,000 times base, sure, but 40,000? That's a bit extreme.

Randomly assuming people are not at full power is basically an excuse to dispose with all the hints you're given so you can make up a random number.

I just illustrated how it made sense. If you don't just pull out a theory that assumes he gets different multipliers, then x40,000 is just what you get from stacking the multipliers on him.

My theory is no numbers. Just everyone is at the power level of 1. Goku 1. Bebi(First form) 5. Goku SSJ3- 3.

See how simple it is? Not trolling btw. This is how I did Boo Arc power levels as well and it fits perfect.

[RandomGuy96]

All you did was say it fits because power scaling seems to suggest it. You didn't address the fact that SSJ4 SHOULD just be Oozaru x one's full potential, which in Goku or Vegeta's case is, 400 times base.

No, it shouldn't, because according to the Perfect Files, SS4 is all of your potential drawn to the limit, Apparently they retconned it and had it take SS3's place.

I didn't just say it fit because if power scaling, I showed how that's where he ends up with the multipliers. Simple. You, on the other hand, just randomly said "it should be SS3 x 10" without giving any reason as to why. Is it because that SS3 = power to the limit? Well the very existence of SS4 disproves that.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Oozaru is stacked on top of that full potential, that's why the popular view is 4,000 times base. Let's, however for one second, assume it's higher than 4,000 times base. Why in the heck is it 100 times SSJ3? I can buy as high as 5,000. 40,000 is ludicrous.
EDIT: Actually 6,400 times base also works since the multipliers could multiply by themselves:
50 x 2 x 4 x 16 = 6,400

[RandomGuy96]

Oozaru is stacked on top of that full potential, that's why the popular view is 4,000 times base.

Source? Because the Perfect Files say that SS4 IS that full potential, and mentions nothing about it being SS3 x 10.

And I don't really care what the popular view is, if the other view makes more sense to me. The only way to have it the other way is just give Baby smaller multipliers, which isn't supported anywhere.

Why in the heck is it 100 times SSJ3? I can buy as high as 5,000. 40,000 is ludicrous.

Because that's what you get by applying multipliers. It is supported by the guidebooks and never contradicted. Why do I keep having to say the same thing?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Your view is just very narrow minded, that's what I'm saying. Anyway, I kinda like SSJ4 being 6,400 times. If SSJ4 would be 6,400 times base, this is where I would have the 2:
SSJ4 Goku(Buu): 512,000,000,000
Ultimate Gohan: 400,000,000,000

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SSJ4 Goku(Buu Arc) vs Ultimate Gohan

Gohan gets destroyed. IMO, SS4 unlocks an extra (and huge) amount of dormant power that is beyond Rou Kaioshin's power. But if Gohan had transformed into SS4, then he would be able to have access to his dormant powers without requiring rage, and he would also have access to even more power beyond it. He would be an Ultimate Super Saiyan 4 in other words (not U. Gohan x SS4 multiplier, just power beyond normal raged SS4 Gohan).

For me, Golden Oozaru is base x40.000/Oozaru x500 and Super Saiyan 4 is base x3.400.000/Golden Oozaru x85.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Full Power Gokua vs Olibu

[Rocketman]

Gohan punches SS4 Goku out of his fur.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan punches SS4 Goku out of his fur.

Where do you have Ssj3 Goku in comparison to Gohan?

[Rocketman]

Gohan punches SS4 Goku out of his fur.

Where do you have Ssj3 Goku in comparison to Gohan?

Chump level, just like everybody else but Vegetto and the two higher forms of Buu.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan punches SS4 Goku out of his fur.

Where do you have Ssj3 Goku in comparison to Gohan?

Chump level, just like everybody else but Vegetto and the two higher forms of Buu.

A number please ?

[dbzfan7]

16 vs Super 13

17 & 18 vs Super 13

[TheMightyOzaru]

If they combined an attack, C-17 and C-18 might be able to pull a victory.

[RandomGuy96]

16 wins by a slim margin. The Daizenshuu called him Gero's strongest non-Cell creation.

17 and 18 get massacred. It's no different than Piccolo and 17 trying to fight Imperfect Cell.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't think movies were taken into account when that was said. Anyway, Super 13 wins against C-16.

[dbzfan7]

16 wins by a slim margin. The Daizenshuu called him Gero's strongest non-Cell creation.

Just looked up the entry and your right. 16 is stated as the strongest Android besides Cell.

[TheMightyOzaru]

16 wins by a slim margin. The Daizenshuu called him Gero's strongest non-Cell creation.

Just looked up the entry and your right. 16 is stated as the strongest Android besides Cell.

Which Daizenshuu entry is it? Some Daizenshuu don't take into account the anime.