Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Godo]

You forgot Farmer w/ shotgun.

Seems legit.

I cheated a little, used some levels from the Chozenshuu,

[Kamiccolo9]

You forgot Farmer w/ shotgun.

Seems legit.

I cheated a little, used some levels from the Chozenshuu,

Does the Final Farmer-Dama utilize the shotgun?

[Malik_DBNA]

Cooler's confirmed PL in his 5th Form is 470,000,000. With the 50x multiplier from SSJ, Goku's PL post-Zenkai would have to be around 10,000,000

[TheMightyOzaru]

Cooler's confirmed PL in his 5th Form is 470,000,000. With the 50x multiplier from SSJ, Goku's PL post-Zenkai would have to be around 10,000,000

That's from a BS V-Jump scan that also states Broly and Gogeta have BPs of 1,200,000,000 and 2,500,000,000 respectively. Seriously, those levels cannot work.

[Godo]

You forgot Farmer w/ shotgun.

Seems legit.

I cheated a little, used some levels from the Chozenshuu,

Does the Final Farmer-Dama utilize the shotgun?

Yes. All ki blasts of his are channeled through his shotgun, which is why his effective powerlevel went down when he injured it.
With the Final Farmer-Dama, he holds the Farmer-Dama up on the barrel of the shotgun, pretty much like with a Popsicle.
He shoots the blasts with aiming and pulling the trigger. This is almost always accompanied with his famous war cry.

Funny thing, though, it is yet unknown if he was born with the shotgun in his hand or if he found it later as a toddler.

Cooler's confirmed PL in his 5th Form is 470,000,000. With the 50x multiplier from SSJ, Goku's PL post-Zenkai would have to be around 10,000,000

That's from a BS V-Jump scan that also states Broly and Gogeta have BPs of 1,200,000,000 and 2,500,000,000 respectively. Seriously, those levels cannot work.

I don't really believe in that powerlevel either.
But it could work, but it just means that you have to rework the whole system.
Let's say that a difference of 100,000,000 is clear cut to be dominating.

So, to dominate Cooler, Goku has to be at least 570,000,000.
Android 17 would be 670,000,000
Imperfect cell 770,000,000
Semi Perfect Cell 880,000,000
Perfect Cell 990,000,00
Super Perfect Cell 1,010,000,000
Fat Buu: 1,110,000,000
Super Buu 1,210,000,000
Gotenks Buu: 1,310,000,000
Gohan Buu: 1,410,000,000
Gogeta: Still able to crush anyone

So they could work, if you throw out the multiplier system and also, make a whole new system to work with those numbers.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No, that can't work. Goku is stronger than SSJG2 Vegeta with only half his power and SSJ Vegeta is already stronger than C-16 when he gets out of the ROSAT because Trunks basically says so. If Semi-Perfect Cell were 880,000,000, Goku would have to be greater than 1,660,000,000 as a FPSSJ bare minimum and Gohan's even stronger than that so he too would be have a BP far greater than 1,660,000,000. You then multiply that by 2, the SSJ2 multiplier, and you get something much stronger than 3,320,000,000 for SSJ2 Gohan. That's not even considering a rage boost.

[Malik_DBNA]

Well, if you take BoG into account, Goku's base PL during the Boo arc isn't even 100,000,000, as Bills states that he doesn't believe Goku could beat Freeza as he was (prior to transforming). And this is five years AFTER the battle with Boo, so we know Goku has been training since, meaning his PL during the Boo arc could very well be barely around the 50,000,000 range.

Also, I know, I feel similar about the V-Jump scans, but those are considered "Official" Power Level listings.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't consider them "official" at all. They are merely promotional scans for Budokai 3.

[Saiga]

Which makes them official. Anything that's officially licensed is official.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I ignored the V-Jump battle powers because I don't believe they can work. But I go mostly by what is officially stated.

And we can't decide what's official and what isn't.

[dbzfan7]

I ignored the V-Jump battle powers because I don't believe they can work. But I go mostly by what is officially stated.

And we can't decide what's official and what isn't.

I don't think they work either.

[Godo]

No, that can't work. Goku is stronger than SSJG2 Vegeta with only half his power and SSJ Vegeta is already stronger than C-16 when he gets out of the ROSAT because Trunks basically says so. If Semi-Perfect Cell were 880,000,000, Goku would have to be greater than 1,660,000,000 as a FPSSJ bare minimum and Gohan's even stronger than that so he too would be have a BP far greater than 1,660,000,000. You then multiply that by 2, the SSJ2 multiplier, and you get something much stronger than 3,320,000,000 for SSJ2 Gohan. That's not even considering a rage boost.

Sure, but I am saying that they can work if we throw our previous systems away. Anything can work if you rework it.
I don't agree with the numbers, yet you try to make them work with your own numbers, which IMO is where the fallacy stands.

[Saiga]

Those numbers you gave don't work with details of the manga or official multipliers. Unless you're saying they'd work under a completely different power level scale that measures differently... which is completely irrelevant.

[Godo]

Those numbers you gave don't work with details of the manga or official multipliers. Unless you're saying they'd work under a completely different power level scale that measures differently... which is completely irrelevant.

For those two levels, they can indeed work inside their own universes.
We are not talking about hardcore continuity when it comes to the movies after all.
Unless you want to explain how the movies are directly in continuity to the manga, then there is no need to link those powerlevels to the manga and to the multipliers known.
Thus, they can make sense in their own movie universe.

[Saiga]

But still, movie 12 has things like Janemba being stronger than Boo and stuff, and there's no reason to assume that Boo is weaker or that multipliers work differently. If you're going that far, then the V-Jump figures simply don't work, because you have to twist everything else for them to fit, to the point where things just have to be randomly different.

[Godo]

But still, movie 12 has things like Janemba being stronger than Boo and stuff, and there's no reason to assume that Boo is weaker or that multipliers work differently. If you're going that far, then the V-Jump figures simply don't work, because you have to twist everything else for them to fit, to the point where things just have to be randomly different.

I totally get your point.
But the movies tend to be randomly different too at times (such as forms used, designs vs. actual power ect.).
Wouldn't you have to twist the powerlevels too for them to work?

[Saiga]

I guess that would depend on the movie. I think a lot of them could be explained by different events leaving some characters stronger or weaker (easy for the heroes, since their power changes so much over the series based on what happens to them) but off the top of my head I can't really think of how Movie 13 Goku would be so much stronger than Gotenks or Gohan without it just being random, for instance.

I guess, the easiest way to justify these power levels would be if you actually take Budokai 3's transformation multipliers at face value, so Super Saiyan 3 for instance is a 40% increase rather than a 400x multiplier. Do that, and these numbers would fit the game's story to some extent.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No, that can't work. Goku is stronger than SSJG2 Vegeta with only half his power and SSJ Vegeta is already stronger than C-16 when he gets out of the ROSAT because Trunks basically says so. If Semi-Perfect Cell were 880,000,000, Goku would have to be greater than 1,660,000,000 as a FPSSJ bare minimum and Gohan's even stronger than that so he too would be have a BP far greater than 1,660,000,000. You then multiply that by 2, the SSJ2 multiplier, and you get something much stronger than 3,320,000,000 for SSJ2 Gohan. That's not even considering a rage boost.

Sure, but I am saying that they can work if we throw our previous systems away. Anything can work if you rework it.
I don't agree with the numbers, yet you try to make them work with your own numbers, which IMO is where the fallacy stands.

Throwing the previous systems away is fallacy itself .

[Malik_DBNA]

I'm sure that the widely accepted SSJ multipliers, established via Daizenshuu, V Jump, Death Battle, etc are as follows:

SSJ - 50x
SSJ2 - 100x
SSJ3 - 400x
SSJ4 - 4000x

SSJ God seems to be heavily debated, with the multiplier sitting somewhere between 5000 - 50,000

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'm sure that the widely accepted SSJ multipliers, established via Daizenshuu, V Jump, Death Battle, etc are as follows:

SSJ - 50x
SSJ2 - 100x
SSJ3 - 400x
SSJ4 - 4000x

SSJ God seems to be heavily debated, with the multiplier sitting somewhere between 5000 - 50,000

The SS4 multiplier is the only one that isn't official.