Bardock - The Original Super Saiyan / / Super Saiyan God?

[KentalSSJ6]

He has no ship. How is he gonna get off planet. Planet Plant's original inhabitants clearly have no methods of space travel so unless Bardock can breath in space, hes stuck on Plant till the Saiyans arrive. Plus we dont know exactly how many years he went back in. The Saiyans could arrive in a week, or decades.

He went back 1,000 years, and he has access to Tobi and Cavira's ship.

Still doesent help Bardock's case. I doubt he even knows about the original Saiyan planet let alone how to get there.

[Kendamu]

It's not like he was forced into killing innocent people.

When you think about it, he sorta was. It was either kill or be killed, however, I'm not trying to say that the Saiyans were all good but were forced to kill by Freeza. In multiple flashbacks, were are shown the Saiyans laughing (King Vegeta and Vegeta mostly) while they watch their prey suffer at their hands, as well as Vegeta and Nappa visiting planets and killing its inhabitants single handedly when told not to do so. However, let's say if one Saiyan chose not to kill any innocent lives and defied Freeza, that said Saiyan would most likely be killed on the spot by Freeza himself for being useless.

That someone would've happened to have been Tarble. Bardock was your everyday evil bastard who killed and enjoyed it. His thing against Freeza was about the survival of his planet and people, not good versus evil. Had he beat Freeza, the Saiyans likely would've continued roaming the universe killing people for money and seeking out strong opponents.

I know that the dub tried to make Bardock a bit more heroic, but it's not true: Bardock is a bloodthirsty space warrior who would kill someone he doesn't like any day of the week because that's how things get settled on Planet Vegeta.

[Hellspawn28]

He can't be SSJG because Episode of Bardock is not canon, which means it has nothing to do with manga where he actually dies...

I hear Episode of Bardock was added to the manga timeline not too while ago. It seems like it could be canon to the manga and not the anime given that the anime stated that the Tsufurujins are the main race on Planet Plant. In the manga, the Tsufurujins are never seen or mention at all.

[Super Vegetto]

He can't be SSJG because Episode of Bardock is not canon, which means it has nothing to do with manga where he actually dies...

I hear Episode of Bardock was added to the manga timeline not too while ago. It seems like it could be canon to the manga and not the anime given that the anime stated that the Tsufurujins are the main race on Planet Plant. In the manga, the Tsufurujins are never seen or mention at all.

The source where you heard that ?

[TheMightyOzaru]

He can't be SSJG because Episode of Bardock is not canon, which means it has nothing to do with manga where he actually dies...

I hear Episode of Bardock was added to the manga timeline not too while ago. It seems like it could be canon to the manga and not the anime given that the anime stated that the Tsufurujins are the main race on Planet Plant. In the manga, the Tsufurujins are never seen or mention at all.

The source where you heard that ?

Canon is highly subjective in Dragon Ball. EoB is canon if you want it to be.

[Super Vegetto]

[/quote]Canon is highly subjective in Dragon Ball. EoB is canon if you want it to be.[/quote]

No we can't just take some movie as cannon, even when there are no contradictions.

Same thing would be for movie 9, yet it's not cannon...

[VegettoEX]

This is a cannon.

There have been very few statements from any members of any production staff associated with any type of Dragon Ball product about what the "truth" is in terms of a singular storyline. I've written about it plenty in the past, and it's great/fun/hysterical/reassuring to see so many folks regurgitating it back into the community. In a nutshell, if none of them have gone out of their way to say what the "truth" is, you're absolutely free to start picking and choosing what you want to go with...

... so long as you recognize, understand, and make peace with the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you.

If you personally want to include DBZ Movie 9 in your own working canonicity, by all means, knock yourself out.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No we can't just take some movie as cannon, even when there are no contradictions.

Same thing would be for movie 9, yet it's not cannon...

You need a lesson in the canon of Dragon Ball.

[TheGmGoken]

Canon is highly subjective in Dragon Ball. EoB is canon if you want it to be.

No we can't just take some movie as cannon, even when there are no contradictions.

Same thing would be for movie 9, yet it's not cannon...[/quote]
You need a lesson in the canon of Dragon Ball.[/quote]

Especially since he apparently thinks that DB has a "cannon" not canon. Though I think(even though no one have said it.) the manga is the only thing every has to agree is canon.

[KaioGojita]

This is a cannon.

There have been very few statements from any members of any production staff associated with any type of Dragon Ball product about what the "truth" is in terms of a singular storyline. I've written about it plenty in the past, and it's great/fun/hysterical/reassuring to see so many folks regurgitating it back into the community. In a nutshell, if none of them have gone out of their way to say what the "truth" is, you're absolutely free to start picking and choosing what you want to go with...

... so long as you recognize, understand, and make peace with the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you.

If you personally want to include DBZ Movie 9 in your own working canonicity, by all means, knock yourself out.

I see, so this theory and prediction /could/ be possible after all.

[Ajay]

I see, so this theory and prediction /could/ be possible after all.

No because regardless of what you take to be canon or not, it still doesn't make sense.

[dbzfan7]

He ain't either.

[Super Vegetto]

No we can't just take some movie as cannon, even when there are no contradictions.

Same thing would be for movie 9, yet it's not cannon...

You need a lesson in the canon of Dragon Ball.

You can't be serious. The canon is what author states as canon, not side story.

GT is non canon/side story because it has nothing to do with things that happend in manga or any canon stated work.

It may be conected with official work, but it's not part of original history. That is canon in Dragon Ball world...

[TheGmGoken]

No we can't just take some movie as cannon, even when there are no contradictions.

Same thing would be for movie 9, yet it's not cannon...

You need a lesson in the canon of Dragon Ball.

You can't be serious. The canon is what author states as canon, not side story.

The author of DB(Toriyama) haven't stated NOTHING about canon. The closet he got was Battle of Gods which is debatable.

[KaioGojita]

I see, so this theory and prediction /could/ be possible after all.

No because regardless of what you take to be canon or not, it still doesn't make sense.

Anything could have sense if you give it a train of thought.

[Super Vegetto]

[/quote]The author of DB(Toriyama) haven't stated NOTHING about canon. The closet he got was Battle of Gods which is debatable.[/quote]


He didn't said canon. He said side story/alternate universe for others and that is meaning of non canon.

He was deaply involved in BoG so it shouldn't be debatable like other things beside manga. That is the diffrence and meaning of canon.

Even Toei mentioned that it's new story in Official History so why should it be debatable ?

[TheMightyOzaru]

No we can't just take some movie as cannon, even when there are no contradictions.

Same thing would be for movie 9, yet it's not cannon...

You need a lesson in the canon of Dragon Ball.

You can't be serious. The canon is what author states as canon, not side story.

GT is non canon/side story because it has nothing to do with things that happend in manga or any canon stated work.

It may be conected with official work, but it's not part of original history. That is canon in Dragon Ball world...

Do you even know what canon means? It's the accepted works of something. If people accept some of the movies and GT to be canon, they are canon. Shuiesha, the official publication company, seems to be under the impression that Episdoe of Bardock, Dragon Ball, Dead Zone, Dragon Ball Z, Cooler's Revenge, Battle of Gods, and GT are canon.

He was deaply involved in BoG so it shouldn't be debatable like other things beside manga.

He was quite involved in GT and the other films as well .

I see, so this theory and prediction /could/ be possible after all.

No because regardless of what you take to be canon or not, it still doesn't make sense.

Anything could have sense if you give it a train of thought.

Not really. I think most things can make sense if you try and make things fit, but this is just out there and is without justification.

[Super Vegetto]

Well good luck with accepting anime as canon on any dbz forum.

The others don't matter. It's only official when author is deply involved in his work, not others that are using his work. Only if author accepts someones work it should be canon.

He wasn't deaply involved like in other movies/side stories and that is the diffrence. He wrote the whole freaking thing by himself and who knows what else...

Toriyama interview:
It’s rare, or rather, it’s the first time, that I’ve been deeply involved with the animation from the scriptwriting stage.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well good luck with accepting anime as canon on any dbz forum.

The others don't matter. It's only official when author is deply involved in his work, not others that are using his work. Only if author accepts someones work it should be canon.

He wasn't deaply involved like in other movies/side stories and that is the diffrence. He wrote the whole freaking thing by himself and who knows what else...

Toriyama interview:
It’s rare, or rather, it’s the first time, that I’ve been deeply involved with the animation from the scriptwriting stage.

He was still quite involved with the films and GT. He was just more involved with Battle of Gods. The author doesn't accept anything as "canon". Toriyama probably doesn't even know what canon means.

[Super Vegetto]

Well good luck with accepting anime as canon on any dbz forum.

The others don't matter. It's only official when author is deply involved in his work, not others that are using his work. Only if author accepts someones work it should be canon.

He wasn't deaply involved like in other movies/side stories and that is the diffrence. He wrote the whole freaking thing by himself and who knows what else...

Toriyama interview:
It’s rare, or rather, it’s the first time, that I’ve been deeply involved with the animation from the scriptwriting stage.

He was still quite involved with the films and GT. He was just more involved with Battle of Gods. The author doesn't accept anything as "canon". Toriyama probably doesn't even know what canon means.

I don't belive that it's ever mentioned how he was involved with the animation and scriptwriting like in BoG. That's the diffrence.

Well obviously if you ask him he wouldn't mind. And yes he probably even doesn't know what means canon in db world...