Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:22 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:No. He just rages against Birus and that's it. That's not a technique. He shouldn't be able to amplify his power more than an SSJ3 transformation. If it were that simple then it would have been used in the series.
Let's both stick to our opinions then.
dbzfan7 wrote:Are you going to stick with selective bullshit and ignore other stuff because you don't like it.
What are you talking about? As a kid, Goku didn't have an issue by getting exterior help, like the Super Sacred Water. As an adult, he didn't like that. He didn't like using Super Saiyan God, and he didn't want to use Fusion or Potara against non-merged opponents, so I'm assuming that Goku would also not want his dormant power drawn out again. Goku has changed a lot from start to the end of the manga.

(Chill out BTW.)
dbzfan7 wrote:Goku also says he wouldn't need it. He would fuse if they needed to.
He says that they would manage something, and that it wouldn't be fair. If Boo was too strong, then yes, he would probably use Fusion or Potara, but he wouldn't be satisfied. It would be the same scenario we saw in BoG.
dbzfan7 wrote:Yes it was. The Elder Kaioshin pulled out all the potential Gohan had and what he can achieve at the time. The same would be for Goku. And seeing how beyond limits Vegeta wasn't that much stronger, neither would Goku.
I don't think that it would make Goku much stronger either (though he would get a bigger boost that Vegeta, since Babidi draws out beyond its limits, while Rou Kaioshin draws out far, far, faa~aar beyond its limits), but he would be significantly stronger in Ultimate than his Super Saiyan 3 IMO. At most twice stronger.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:27 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:What are you talking about? As a kid, Goku didn't have an issue by getting exterior help, like the Super Sacred Water. As an adult, he didn't like that. He didn't like using Super Saiyan God, and he didn't want to use Fusion or Potara against non-merged opponents, so I'm assuming that Goku would also not want his dormant power drawn out again. Goku has changed a lot from start to the end of the manga.
Goku has no problem with natural increases. What Gohan got was natural as it didn't strain him in the slightest and it was his own power.
He says that they would manage something, and that it wouldn't be fair. If Boo was too strong, then yes, he would probably use Fusion or Potara, but he wouldn't be satisfied. It would be the same scenario we saw in BoG.
Hell he had no problem against Janemba. If Boo was a lot stronger than him and he had to fuse he wouldn't care. This Boo was manageable so he felt he didn't need fusion.
I don't think that it would make Goku much stronger either (though he would get a bigger boost that Vegeta, since Babidi draws out beyond its limits, while Rou Kaioshin draws out far, far, faa~aar beyond its limits), but he would be significantly stronger in Ultimate than his Super Saiyan 3 IMO. At most twice stronger.
The Elder Kaioshin brings out the power they have in a natural manner. Gohan had got hundreds of time stronger without his body blowing up as it was a natural process. What Goku would get is basically his SSJ forms power converted into a natural power that doesn't strain. If anything it would make his training more efficient and benefit his future training. If the Elder Kaioshin simply put more energy into the body it would strain, and yet he does it in a natural way that doesn't harm the user. It's power Goku can't reach on his own anyways. I see no reason to ignore this other then the fact that for marketing purposes it would remove SSJ.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:43 pm

When I'm saying "natural", I don't mean "no strain to the body like base". I mean "you are naturally born with this ability". Goku transforming into Oozaru or Super Saiyan 3 is in his genes, while for Kuririn it's not. Gohan using all of his hidden power, including his Super Saiyan 2 (and possibly 3) powers in base isn't natural. It happened because a magical being used a magical ability in him.
dbzfan7 wrote:Hell he had no problem against Janemba. If Boo was a lot stronger than him and he had to fuse he wouldn't care. This Boo was manageable so he felt he didn't need fusion.
He shouldn't be satisfied that he had to kill Janenba with Vegeta's help (though he was excited to try out Fusion), and he wouldn't be satisfied that he would have to kill Pure Boo (a non-merged fighter) in a merged form, since he wasn't satisfied that he had to take everyone's help to fight Beers. Same for Broli, Merged #13, and everyone he couldn't beat with his own power alone. Not saying that he wouldn't use Fusion against Boo, or that he wouldn't try to get Ultimate if he had to face a very strong & dangerous opponent, he would just have such ways (Ultimate, Super Saiyan God, Fusion, Potara, Genki Dama, etc) as worst case scenarios.
dbzfan7 wrote:It's power Goku can't reach on his own anyways.
According to Toriyama, ki can increase infinitely. So, after lots of years (faa~aar beyond his lifetime though, IMO), he should be able to reach that power.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:49 pm

He shouldn't be satisfied that he had to kill Janenba with Vegeta's help (though he was excited to try out Fusion), and he wouldn't be satisfied that he would have to kill Pure Boo (a non-merged fighter) in a merged form, since he wasn't satisfied that he had to take everyone's help to fight Beers. Same for Broli, Merged #13, and everyone he couldn't beat with his own power alone. Not saying that he wouldn't use Fusion against Boo, or that he wouldn't try to get Ultimate if he had to face a very strong & dangerous opponent, he would just have such ways (Ultimate, Super Saiyan God, Fusion, Potara, Genki Dama, etc) as worst case scenarios.
He wasn't at all disappointed after he fused with Vegeta, he was actually happy. Goku would prefer to beat someone on his own if he can, but he will fuse no questions asked if he can't. He begged Vegeta to do that when inside Super Boo.
According to Toriyama, ki can increase infinitely. So, after lots of years (faa~aar beyond his lifetime though, IMO), he should be able to reach that power.
But that's not possible as you would need an infinite amount of different training excercises for that to work. Hell he also said pretty much everyone was at their peak in Battle of Gods. And that was recent.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:57 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:He wasn't at all disappointed after he fused with Vegeta, he was actually happy.
He was happy to work with Vegeta before saying him his final goodbyes, and was happy for having tried the Fusion. But let's not forget that this is Toei Goku, who likes borrowing everyone's powers.
dbzfan7 wrote:Goku would prefer to beat someone on his own if he can, but he will fuse no questions asked if he can't.
That's what I'm saying.
dbzfan7 wrote:He begged Vegeta to do that when inside Super Boo.
That was because Evil Boo was a merged opponent, so it would be fair. But even if he wasn't, and him using Fusion with Vegeta was necessary, he would do it, like with Janenba.
dbzfan7 wrote:But that's not possible as you would need an infinite amount of different training excercises for that to work.
That's what AfterLife is for. By meditating, you raise your ki. That's what Toriyama said.
dbzfan7 wrote:Hell he also said pretty much everyone was at their peak in Battle of Gods. And that was recent.
I know, that's why I believe it will take hundreds of years for Goku to surpass Ultimate Gohan. Reaching your peak means very slow gains.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:03 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:He wasn't at all disappointed after he fused with Vegeta, he was actually happy.
He was happy to work with Vegeta before saying him his final goodbyes, and was happy for having tried the Fusion. But let's not forget that this is Toei Goku, who likes borrowing everyone's powers.[/quote]

He does what he has to do. He doesn't ask for anything if he doesn't need it.
That was because Evil Boo was a merged opponent, so it would be fair. But even if he wasn't, and him using Fusion with Vegeta was necessary, he would do it, like with Janenba.
It's not because he was merged. It's because he was a lot stronger. Fat Boo is technically merged in a way.
That's what AfterLife is for. By meditating, you raise your ki. That's what Toriyama said.
But Goku is literally has no one to help with this so even with an eternity it's impossible. Fighting new opponents also leads to better gains as they have different styles to them. Goku is already considered one of three the strongest in the living world or dead (The third person is either Gohan or Boo). So he would have no one who could help him make gains an so he would be stuck eventually.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:07 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:But Goku is literally has no one to help with this so even with an eternity it's impossible. Fighting new opponents also leads to better gains as they have different styles to them. Goku is already considered one of three the strongest in the living world or dead (The third person is either Gohan or Boo). So he would have no one who could help him make gains an so he would be stuck eventually.
He can still train under Kaio, Dai Kaio, or Kaioshin, and even spar with Gohan, or Goten (if he actually gets stronger), or someone else. Sparing isn't the only way to increase his power.

But it's my opinion that Goku can surpass Gohan after hundreds of years, and yours that he can't. So, let's just agree that we disagree. :thumbup:
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:08 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:But Goku is literally has no one to help with this so even with an eternity it's impossible. Fighting new opponents also leads to better gains as they have different styles to them. Goku is already considered one of three the strongest in the living world or dead (The third person is either Gohan or Boo). So he would have no one who could help him make gains an so he would be stuck eventually.
He can still train under Kaio, Dai Kaio, or Kaioshin, and even spar with Gohan, or Goten (if he actually gets stronger), or someone else. Sparing isn't the only way to increase his power.

But it's my opinion that Goku can surpass Gohan after hundreds of years, and yours that he can't. So, let's just agree that we disagree. :thumbup:
I'd like to agree to disagree with everything thank you very much. :lol:
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:11 pm

Man this topic turned into quite the debate recently.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:12 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Man this topic turned into quite the debate recently.
Don't worry, it's finally over. :mrgreen:
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:23 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Man this topic turned into quite the debate recently.
Don't worry, it's finally over. :mrgreen:
I'm not even gonna pretend to know what going on as I skimmed it over but seemed to get rather intense.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by Malik_DBNA » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:43 pm

To make sure there is a definite end to this, here's what IS in DBNA, and therefore, will be considered HOW IT IS in DBNA:

1) Everyone has a well of hidden strength, though some can be quite large and others not so much. It is possible to go even beyond this (as is currently the case with Gohan), but takes a lot of work to do.

2) Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo DO NOT like relying on external means to achieve their strength. They only use fusion as a last resort, and do not like to use SSJG despite its power BECAUSE it requires the others to work. Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Oob like to work for their power, and see anything other than training or their own abilities as cheap and unfair. They will always prefer to rely on their own abilities, but will cast aside their reservations about such things if there is no foreseeable way around the problem. Trunks, Goten, Pan, and fighters like them (not truly 'warriors for life' but rather 'warriors by circumstance') have no issue with allowing an external force (Elder Kaioshin's unlock, Super God Water, etc etc) to draw out their powers should need be, or with Fusing.

3) Elder Kaioshin can draw out the hidden reserves of anyone, but the ritual ONLY works ONCE. And, just as it was when the Elder Namekian drew out Gohan's (then) latent power, the powers drawn out can be expanded upon after YEARS of hard work.

4) In accordance with everyone's argument, Gohan cannot lower his PL (currently between 100 Billion and 150 Billion) down to match Trunks (60,000,000) and fuse, as the gap in their power is too high. Trunks will have to get much more powerful if he were to fuse with Gohan.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by hulkty » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:11 pm

Well...thhat pretty much confirms that Trunks WILL get some huge power boost in some way soon, as we all already know that Truhan IS coming.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by Malik_DBNA » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:17 am

hulkty wrote:Well...thhat pretty much confirms that Trunks WILL get some huge power boost in some way soon, as we all already know that Truhan IS coming.
I can neither confirm nor deny :P
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:07 pm

Malik_DBNA wrote:In accordance with everyone's argument, Gohan cannot lower his PL (currently between 100 Billion and 150 Billion) down to match Trunks (60,000,000) and fuse, as the gap in their power is too high. Trunks will have to get much more powerful if he were to fuse with Gohan.
But Goku was planning to use Fusion in the manga. How do you explain that?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by Malik_DBNA » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:18 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Malik_DBNA wrote:In accordance with everyone's argument, Gohan cannot lower his PL (currently between 100 Billion and 150 Billion) down to match Trunks (60,000,000) and fuse, as the gap in their power is too high. Trunks will have to get much more powerful if he were to fuse with Gohan.
But Goku was planning to use Fusion in the manga. How do you explain that?
We'll just chalk it up to on-the-fly planning. The powers of the two fusees have to be on some sort of equal footing. There can be some discrepancy in their levels, but not to the extent that Gohan and Trunks are (Gohan, even with a slightly lower power, is still over 2,000 times stronger than Trunks). The way the fusion will work will make a lot more sense, and it'll look sweet.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:28 pm

Fine by me then.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by Malik_DBNA » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:57 pm

Yay!
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:10 pm

I stop caring about whatever or not Trunks can fuse with Gohan as soon as I learned Goten isn't...all fuck it.....

Btw I forgot...what happen to Pan again...?
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Re: Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

Post by Malik_DBNA » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:39 pm

She's on the Palace Lookout with her family and the Brief Family.
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