Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[dbzfan7]

Goten & Trunks are very talented, but Gohan hasn't shown any talent. His dormant power was the only special thing for him.

Yeah I see Goten and Trunks possibly doing better as they adapt to things much quicker than Gohan does. Gohan would probably have the hardest time. Then again Goku has no idea how he did it so perhaps anyone of them can do it with no problems either.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I can see everyone get it now, because why not have several SSJ Gods.

Everyone can get Super Saiyan God for 7 minutes, but not everyone can absorb its power to make it permanent like Goku did. I can see Vegeta succeeding doing so, but what about Gohan, Goten, Pan, Trunks, and Bra?

Yeah, I think the pure bloods should be the only ones capable of absorbing the power into their bodies. They have the drive and the skills to do so. Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Bra, and Pan likely don't.

[KentalSSJ6]

I can see everyone get it now, because why not have several SSJ Gods.

Everyone can get Super Saiyan God for 7 minutes, but not everyone can absorb its power to make it permanent like Goku did. I can see Vegeta succeeding doing so, but what about Gohan, Goten, Pan, Trunks, and Bra?

Yeah, I think the pure bloods should be the only ones capable of absorbing the power into their bodies. They have the drive and the skills to do so. Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Bra, and Pan likely don't.

Eh, makes sense. Coupled with the fact that Goku and Vegeta train the most and hardest out of anyone in the cast. Perhaps half breeds get a slightly stronger albeit temporary variant of the form? Would make for a interesting trade-off.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Given the context of the scene, it's very plausible that Goku could have been supressed when Billis made that statement. We've seen Goku supressed on manyvoccasions before (being @ 5,000 when confronting Vegeta/Nappa and when confronting the Ginyu Force).

The thing is, Beers said that Goku looks like he can beat Freeza only as a Super Saiyan, and Kaio agrees.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Tis true, Kaio agrees and Goku doesn't argue. Beers is also a God so he should be able to pinpoint Goku's base power, much like an inferior captain Ginyu did in the past. This keeps things from getting unnecessarily bloated.

[dbzfan7]

I'll point this out again. "Why bother have them saying his base power is below Freeza if it weren't true?" Why bother with the statement? Captain Ginyu was able to get a pretty good estimate for Goku, so I think Birus could do better. Also nobody argues with this statement. Nobody.

[Gogeta8001]

I'll point this out again. "Why bother have them saying his base power is below Freeza if it weren't true?" Why bother with the statement? Captain Ginyu was able to get a pretty good estimate for Goku, so I think Birus could do better. Also nobody argues with this statement. Nobody.

I just watched the first part of the movie right now.

As you can see from the movie, Kaio is scared out of his mind when he sees Billis. He most likely said that to appease him. Not to mention that Kaio is the same person that suggests that it would be a good idea for Goku to hide in his house, as if Billis is a clueless moron.

And as for Billis's statement, all he did was check out Goku's muscle mass. He seems to be making that statement based on appearence rather than actual power.

Then again, BoG is a plot ridden movie despite it being "canon". I'll take the evidence we have in the manga over what was said in that movie any day.

[dbzfan7]

I'll point this out again. "Why bother have them saying his base power is below Freeza if it weren't true?" Why bother with the statement? Captain Ginyu was able to get a pretty good estimate for Goku, so I think Birus could do better. Also nobody argues with this statement. Nobody.

I just watched the first part of the movie right now.

As you can see from the movie, Kaio is scared out of his mind when he sees Billis. He most likely said that to appease him. Not to mention that Kaio is the same person that suggests that it would be a good idea for Goku to hide in his house, as if Billis is a clueless moron.

And as for Billis's statement, all he did was check out Goku's muscle mass. He seems to be making that statement based on appearence rather than actual power.

Then again, BoG is a plot ridden movie despite it being "canon". I'll take the evidence we have in the manga over what was said in that movie any day.

Or he could be checking out Goku's body as Goku's ki wasn't as big as Freeza's, so maybe his body had something special about it. Ginyu even thought Goku may be faster then him even before Goku use Kaioken. Ginyu also was really close to guessing Goku's base power. Your telling me the God of destruction can't get a better guesstimate. They make the statement, nobody argues with it, and at no point is there a counter statement, it's pure fact.

[Gogeta8001]

I'll point this out again. "Why bother have them saying his base power is below Freeza if it weren't true?" Why bother with the statement? Captain Ginyu was able to get a pretty good estimate for Goku, so I think Birus could do better. Also nobody argues with this statement. Nobody.

I just watched the first part of the movie right now.

As you can see from the movie, Kaio is scared out of his mind when he sees Billis. He most likely said that to appease him. Not to mention that Kaio is the same person that suggests that it would be a good idea for Goku to hide in his house, as if Billis is a clueless moron.

And as for Billis's statement, all he did was check out Goku's muscle mass. He seems to be making that statement based on appearence rather than actual power.

Then again, BoG is a plot ridden movie despite it being "canon". I'll take the evidence we have in the manga over what was said in that movie any day.

Or he could be checking out Goku as Goku's ki wasn't big enough, so maybe his body had something special about it. They make the statement, nobody argues with it, and at no point is there a counter statement, it's pure fact.

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

[dbzfan7]

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong. What's the point of even making it if it was wrong. Birus should be able to tell ki better than Captain Ginyu who can't even sense ki.

[KentalSSJ6]

Fact is, by the time Battle of Gods comes around, Goku's base power level is still bow 120 million. Where everyone puts him at in their opinions is unknown to me. I myself am a minimalist when it comes to power levels and when I decide to discuss them, which I often dont like doing, id have to say for me, Goku in base is around 10 million.

If I had to be generous, id say at the max, base pl of 60 million. But thats as high as id go.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

Kaio could have also just not said anything. There's no real reason he would claim Beers knows well, when he could just remain silent instead of speaking up if it weren't so.

[Gogeta8001]

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong.

And how would you know that? They wanted to hype SSJ so it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

Fact is, by the time Battle of Gods comes around, Goku's base power level is still bow 120 million. Where everyone puts him at in their opinions is unknown to me. I myself am a minimalist when it comes to power levels and when I decide to discuss them, which I often dont like doing, id have to say for me, Goku in base is around 10 million.

If I had to be generous, id say at the max, base pl of 60 million. But thats as high as id go.

So Goku goes from 3 mill to 10 mill in a span of 13 years?

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

Kaio could have also just not said anything. There's no real reason he would claim Beers knows well, when he could just remain silent instead of speaking up if it weren't so.

Your missing the point. He's trying to appease Billis. He's scared out of his mind so he want's to suck up to him.

[dbzfan7]

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong.

And how would you know that? They wanted to hype SSJ so it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

I know that because then the line is fucking pointless as it means nothing. They easily could have said your stronger than Freeza, but still nothing special, but I hear you power up to SSJ to become more powerful.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong.

And how would you know that? They wanted to hype SSJ so it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

If it weren't true, Kaio would either argue or remain silent out of respect. He wouldn't just claim he knows well if it wasn't so, especially if there's a far more respectful to convey Beers' error.

Your missing the point. He's trying to appease Billis. He's scared out of his mind so he want's to suck up to him.

I'm not missing the point, it's just a fairly weak excuse. Goku doesn't argue with it, and he would if what Beers said wasn't true. He didn't put up with Tarble's crap when he underestimated him.

[KentalSSJ6]

As I said, I'm a minimalist when it comes to power levels. After his insane X33 Zenkai on Namek that put him at 3 million in the first place and since Zenkais either stop or become so small they arent even noticed after achieving SSJ, I rule out any Zenkai boosts after Namek for Goku. After Namek Goku does the following.

*Receives one year of training on Yardrat

*Receives 3 years of training with Piccolo and Gohan

*One year of training with Gohan in the Time Chamber

*3 or 6 days of more training with Gohan

*7 years of training in Otherworld after his death.

Ruling out Zenkai boosts, id say a 7 million gain to base seems fitting. To me at least.

[Gogeta8001]

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong.

And how would you know that? They wanted to hype SSJ so it wouldn't suprise me if it was.

I know that because then the line is fucking pointless as it means nothing. They easily could have said your stronger than Freeza, but still nothing special, but I hear you power up to SSJ to become more powerful.[/quote]

Once again, that's a general assumption. The dialouge can be anything. Billis was observing his muscle mass for crying out loud. Why would he do that when he can just sense his PL from a far?

Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.

The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong.[/quote]

And how would you know that? They wanted to hype SSJ so it wouldn't suprise me if it was.[/quote]
If it weren't true, Kaio would either argue or remain silent out of respect. He wouldn't just claim he knows well if it wasn't so, especially if there's a far more respectful to convey Beers' error.[/quote]

It would make more sense for him to agree on what he's saying. He doesn't want to anger him.

But likewise, what was said in the manga > what was said in BoG.

BoG Logic: SSJ2 Vegeta is stronger than SSJ Vegito while enraged.

As I said, I'm a minimalist when it comes to power levels. After his insane X33 Zenkai on Namek that put him at 3 million in the first place and since Zenkais either stop or become so small they arent even noticed after achieving SSJ, I rule out any Zenkai boosts after Namek for Goku. After Namek Goku does the following.

*Receives one year of training on Yardrat

*Receives 3 years of training with Piccolo and Gohan

*One year of training with Gohan in the Time Chamber

*3 or 6 days of more training with Gohan

*7 years of training in Otherworld after his death.

Ruling out Zenkai boosts, id say a 7 million gain to base seems fitting. To me at least.

And that's why being a minimailist is stupid. How can his Base only increase by 7 million?

Goku went from 8,000+ to 90,000 when training for his arrvial on Namek. His RoSaT gains should have made him a lot stronger seeing as he goes from being weaker than Andriod 18 to being on the same level as Supressed Perfect Cell. How can he not have a huge gain after that?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Vegeta(Enraged) isn't even stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Vegeta caught Beers off guard, and Beers proceeded to humor Vegeta to test whether or not he was SSJ God. Again, remaining silent would avoid angering him. There's no reason to "appease" him. Lets look at the evidence. Beers is a God and should be able to pinpoint his base power. Even captain Ginyu was capable of doing that. Goku doesn't argue with what Beers says and he would if he was wrong. He did so when Tarble underestimated him. Kaio agrees with Beers about base Goku being weaker. That's the 3 reasons why Goku is weaker than Freeza in base right there. Honestly though, why would that line even be in there if it weren't true. It's entirely unnecessary and adds nothing if it's not true. Honestly, the Buu arc provides no feats that would lead anyone to believe base Goku is stronger than Freeza. The only thing we have is Dabura claiming 3 people on top the hill possess tremendous energy. He then proceeds to stone Piccolo leaving the 3 Saiyans which implies Piccolo isn't one of the 3 he was referring to, which is inconsistent since we know Piccolo is stronger than base Gohan. Honestly, Toriyama just didn't put a ton of thought into the Buu arc.

[Gogeta8001]

Vegeta(Enraged) isn't even stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Vegeta caught Beers off guard, and Beers proceeded to humor Vegeta to test whether or not he was SSJ God.

He still had some time to see Vegeta's attack. If he were toying with him, he would have easily tanked his punch or gotten out of the way.

[dbzfan7]

Ginyu thought Goku may already be faster than him even though he esitimated his power level was at 85,000 compared to his 120,000. Birus probably thought Goku's body may make up for it. If Ginyu can predict Goku power, then Birus can do it better.

Anyone who says this statement is wrong is in denial. There is no reason to think it is wrong. There is no reason to bring it up. You could easily have written in that Goku may be stronger than Freeza in base and is still unimpressive.

He's all yours Ozaru.