Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
There is enough evidence to prove that Beers & Whis are stronger than at least Super Vegetto (in promotional info for BoG, Beers is stated to be the strongest in the history of Z, meaning he is above Super Vegetto, and then Whis is revealed to be even stronger than Beers), and that God Goku is stronger than SS4 Goku (in the description of DBZ: Battle of Z video game, God Goku is stated to be Goku's most powerful form), who is "perhaps weaker" than Super Vegetto (Super Vegetto is stated to be perhaps stronger than SS4 Goku in the special section of the GT TV Special comic, meaning that he is slightly stronger than SS4 Goku). So, the BoG trio is above SS Gogeta, Super Vegetto, SS4 Goku, SS4 Vegeta, Oozaru Baby, Super #17, Si Xing Long, and Yi Xing Long. Which only leaves outside Super Yi Xing Long & SS4 Gogeta being in a question how they compare with the BoG trio, so since it's up to ones interpretation, I'll say that Whis, Beers, and God Goku are above SS4 Gogeta & Super Yi Xing Long because I can.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
There's no evidence that they're stronger than even base Vegetto.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:There is enough evidence to prove that Beers & Whis are stronger than at least Super Vegetto
Contradictory statement, unrealiable and should be dismissed.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Beers is stated to be the strongest in the history of Z, meaning he is above Super Vegetto, and then Whis is revealed to be even stronger than Beers
GT-related. Should be dismissed if the discussion only focuses on the manga and BOG.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Super Vegetto is stated to be perhaps stronger than SS4 Goku
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
^ Let's just agree that we disagree, we are doing circles all the time. It's how I interpret these statements, so it's my opinion.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
It's not about how you interpret the statements, it's whether they're reliable (which they aren't).
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
In your opinion, they are not reliable, and you decide to disregard it. In my opinion, it's the opposite. You and me have discussed this to death in many threads, aren't you tired?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
Yeah I'm a bit tired of you claiming that contradictory statements (which didn't even come from Toriyama) are worth consideration, that's why I need to correct you every time you do that.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
^ Wow. Just wow.
Well just my minor input but despite my hate for the movies I have Birsu, whis, and SSG Goku above Vegetto(SSJ). Since I'm not bringing GT into this I won't include it. I say Birsu > SSJ Vegetto because the statement of the next guy is always stronger. So after Birsu(Who is the strongest) there is Whis. But let's take the factor of Vegetto being shocked at his own power. So SSJ2 and SSJ3 Vegetto(Despite never being in the manga) should be able to do to Birsu and SSG Goku what Vegeta did to RIkum. That's how I see it. If we take the 2x and 4x SSj2, SSj3 statements. Which I do. 8x should make some difference. But not enough that he cam defeat Birsu.
Well just my minor input but despite my hate for the movies I have Birsu, whis, and SSG Goku above Vegetto(SSJ). Since I'm not bringing GT into this I won't include it. I say Birsu > SSJ Vegetto because the statement of the next guy is always stronger. So after Birsu(Who is the strongest) there is Whis. But let's take the factor of Vegetto being shocked at his own power. So SSJ2 and SSJ3 Vegetto(Despite never being in the manga) should be able to do to Birsu and SSG Goku what Vegeta did to RIkum. That's how I see it. If we take the 2x and 4x SSj2, SSj3 statements. Which I do. 8x should make some difference. But not enough that he cam defeat Birsu.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
How old are we? The amount of direspect in your posts never cease to amaze me. Honestly, I'm surprised you aren't on at least temp ban yet. Anyway, to answer the question of this thread, I think Beers is a little more than twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto.hleV wrote:Yeah I'm a bit tired of you claiming that contradictory statements (which didn't even come from Toriyama) are worth consideration, that's why I need to correct you every time you do that.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
The "Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto" isn't coming from Toriyama as well, yet you can follow it. So, I can follow the other statements as well if I want to. And I also don't believe that anime Vegetto is different in any way than manga Vegetto.hleV wrote:Yeah I'm a bit tired of you claiming that contradictory statements (which didn't even come from Toriyama) are worth consideration, that's why I need to correct you every time you do that.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
Furthermore, it's not a contradiction. It's a misinterpretation on your part which you refuse to admit hleV. The history of Z means anything preceding Battle of Gods. I've proven this already:
.
Is Battle of Gods in the past? No? Good we can move on nowthe whole series of past events connected with someone or something.
.Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
I'd think they are. I'd put FP Bills at maybe 125% of SSJ3 Vegetto
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
There's literally not enough information in-universe to be concrete about it and all we have is the promotional, movie-hyping "strongest in the history of Z" line. Rule of shounen thumb is that the next opponent is always stronger than the last, or else the audience loses interest, so for the sake of raising the stakes, it'd make sense if Beers and Whis were stronger than Vegetto.
(I also use this "rule" on the Buu forms, personally. Genuine Buu > the others.)
(I also use this "rule" on the Buu forms, personally. Genuine Buu > the others.)
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KentalSSJ6
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
No. They are stronger than Super Vegito and that's it. There is no way to determine if they surpass a SSJ2-3 Vegito and never will be unless a SSJ2-3 Vegito ever happens. In my personal opinion it's the following:
Beers > Super Vegito
Beers = SSJ2 Vegito
Beers < SSJ3 Vegito.
Don't have anything on SSJG right now.
Beers > Super Vegito
Beers = SSJ2 Vegito
Beers < SSJ3 Vegito.
Don't have anything on SSJG right now.
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
Do Super Vegettos 2 and 3 even exist? Did I miss a video game what-if? Are we just assuming since he's half-Goku, he can perform those transformations?
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
SS2 & SS3 Vegetto are hypothetical forms that doesn't exist officially.B wrote:Do Super Vegettos 2 and 3 even exist? Did I miss a video game what-if? Are we just assuming since he's half-Goku, he can perform those transformations?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
Outside of fan fiction and series like Multiverse, no he does not exist. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it in Heroes soon though. I mean we got a SSJ3 Gogeta after all.B wrote:Do Super Vegettos 2 and 3 even exist? Did I miss a video game what-if? Are we just assuming since he's half-Goku, he can perform those transformations?
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
Firstly, "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta" has nothing to do with this because I don't claim it to be a literal formula and nothing else, it's how I interpret it personally. You, on the other hand, support a statement which is obviously invalid. The reason I even mentioned Toriyama is because when a contradictory statement comes from a guy who didn't even write the story, it's even easier to dismiss it (emphasizing my surprise at your failure to do so).DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The "Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto" isn't coming from Toriyama as well, yet you can follow it. So, I can follow the other statements as well if I want to. And I also don't believe that anime Vegetto is different in any way than manga Vegetto.hleV wrote:Yeah I'm a bit tired of you claiming that contradictory statements (which didn't even come from Toriyama) are worth consideration, that's why I need to correct you every time you do that.
As for manga Vegetto vs anime Vegetto, they're obviously different because one went SS from the start and the other fought Boo in base before feeling the need to go SS.
Beerus is stated to be the strongest IN the history of Z, meaning that he WAS in the history of Z at the time the statement was made. Since Whis appeared at the same time as Beerus, Whis was in the history of Z as well, rendering the statement invalid.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Furthermore, it's not a contradiction. It's a misinterpretation on your part which you refuse to admit hleV. The history of Z means anything preceding Battle of Gods. I've proven this already:Is Battle of Gods in the past? No? Good we can move on nowthe whole series of past events connected with someone or something.
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
History means everything preceding Battle of Gods. My point still stands . Now please, stop claiming the statement is invalidated because you refuse to accept the correct interpretation.
. Now please, stop claiming the statement is invalidated because you refuse to accept the correct interpretation.Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Are Birusu And SSJG Goku Stronger than SSJ2/SSJ3 Vegetto
We find out about Beerus and Whis before BOG's release, and they happen to be in the history of Z at the time the statement is made.TheMightyOzaru wrote:History means everything preceding Battle of Gods.
(Edited.)
Last edited by hleV on Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.