Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Frieza?

[goku the krump dancer]

If all Super Saiyans are supposed to rival or be stronger than Freeza than what does that say about Future Gohan who was casually sparring with an SSJ future Trunks in the beginning of the "Trunks side story"?

Spoiler:

[TheMightyOzaru]

Trunks is a kid that's never trained a day in his life. He's clearly not very strong.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If all Super Saiyans are supposed to rival or be stronger than Freeza than what does that say about Future Gohan who was casually sparring with an SSJ future Trunks in the beginning of the "Trunks side story"?

Spoiler:

Goten & Trunks are stated to have been born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan without training. If we go by the anime version of the Trunks Special, Trunks has only recently started his training, which would make him extremely weak compared to Gohan, even as a Super Saiyan.

[TheGmGoken]

What's so hard about Base Saiyans > Freeza? Even a power level of 100,000,000 would mean Goku is weaker than Freeza, so this is not a bad thing, people. WHERE in the manga did it say the base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza? Kakashi, please tell me.

[dbzfan7]

I've seen a few things to point to the Base Saiyans, but I see far more for Freeza.

[TheGmGoken]

Yea. I see nothing wrong with Freeza being stronger than the base Saiyans. After all Freeza is brought up many times have a power comparison. Even by Birus. Which is saying a lot.

Edit: Damn red is ugly color. Also I thought Beers, Bills, and Birsu was ALL accepted terms.

[goku the krump dancer]

If all Super Saiyans are supposed to rival or be stronger than Freeza than what does that say about Future Gohan who was casually sparring with an SSJ future Trunks in the beginning of the "Trunks side story"?

Spoiler:

Goten & Trunks are stated to have been born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan without training. If we go by the anime version of the Trunks Special, Trunks has only recently started his training, which would make him extremely weak compared to Gohan, even as a Super Saiyan.

I dont remember that being stated anywhere, I thought that was more or less just a common fan assumption. So are you saying that new born Trunks and Goten with power levels of 5 could still turn Super Saiyan? I was always under the impression that a certain level of power had to be reached in order to become a super saiyan.

But yeah the anime version of the Trunks Special is almost completely different from the manga version and the Original Poster says the Manga implies base saiyans over Freeza so thats why I posted the picture becuase some of you claimed the manga implies nothing which apparently is obviously wrong.

Mind you, I don't have a problem with base Saiyans not being as strong as 100% Freeza but once upon a time I was firm believer in the opposite. So personally it doesn't matter to me whether they are or not.

[Kaboom]

Random off-topic nonsense deleted. Please show me that there's any worth to be found in the intended topic.

[MDSTSSJ]

Beers: I heard from Whis that you defeated Freeza.
Goku: Freeza? Y-Yes that was definitely me.
(Beers checks Goku.)
Beers: Seeing you as you are now I doubt you'd be able to. But it seems you power up by becoming a Super Saiyan.
Kaio: That is correct. You are well informed.

Kaio says " That is correct. You are well informed "

According Kaio, Bills is well informed on what? In Goku can powering up and become Super Saiyan or that he doesn't think Goku could beat Freeza as he is now? According to the order of the statements, I think Kaio agree with " Goku can powering up and become Super Saiya-jin " and Goku doesn't argue because that's true ( become SSJ ).

[Rocketman]

What's so hard about Base Saiyans > Freeza? Even a power level of 100,000,000 would mean Goku is weaker than Freeza, so this is not a bad thing, people. WHERE in the manga did it say the base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza? Kakashi, please tell me.

If you're going to insist on using the fucking retarded greater/less than signs, can you at least check and see if you're using the right one.

[FoolsGil]

Canon to the group here, or not, Son Goku and Friends states Abo and Cabo are equal in strength to Freeza and their fusion is far stronger than Freeza. If those guys can work for decades and become that strong, than Goku is equal to Freeza in base by BOG.

[RandomGuy96]

No, those two were stated to be stronger than Freeza, but Tarble was obviously referring to first form Freeza. It's even the form he pictures when making that statement.

And it's not canon. Nothing is.

[hleV]

Beers: I heard from Whis that you defeated Freeza.
Goku: Freeza? Y-Yes that was definitely me.
(Beers checks Goku.)
Beers: Seeing you as you are now I doubt you'd be able to. But it seems you power up by becoming a Super Saiyan.
Kaio: That is correct. You are well informed.

Kaio says " That is correct. You are well informed "

According Kaio, Bills is well informed on what? In Goku can powering up and become Super Saiyan or that he doesn't think Goku could beat Freeza as he is now? According to the order of the statements, I think Kaio agree with " Goku can powering up and become Super Saiya-jin " and Goku doesn't argue because that's true ( become SSJ ).

The "That is correct. You are well informed" statement from Kaio applies to everything Beerus said. If Beerus was only right about Goku's ability to power up by going SS, and not his inferiority to Freeza, then Kaio would never have said "You are well informed".

Anyway, base Goku being weaker than Freeza is completely valid. I believe most people here that are well familiar with the manga believed that to be the case even before BOG.

[Kakashi]

Toriyama obviously readed whole manga, and than decided to write everything with his hands.

He wouldn't mind so much and take everything in his hands if he didn't know what he was doing...

The Manga says Base Saiyans > Freeza

It doesn't say that. You say that.

How do you think i knew that Freeza is way up in the fucking sky compered to Base Saiyans before Battle of Gods was even relised ?

I readed manga and didn't find contradictions. Also to me it never made sense that Base Goku can beat his SSJ self or Universe tyrant that no amount of training can surpass, which brought me to this decision at first...

Kaioshin who can one shot Frieza is arguably weaker than the Base Saiyans in the Boo Arc

[Kakashi]

Androids Saga Picccolo >> SSjin Trunks (Trunks Arc) already destroys your argument

Are you talking about Trunks from "Trunks the Story"? That's the 14 year old SS Trunks that base Gohan can handle with one hand, and it is stated that Trunks is born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan without doing training.

What other flaws?

i like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku was obviously suppressed when bills made that statement

And I like how everyone ignores the fact that Goku doesn't argue, and Kaio says that Beers is correct.

I am talking about SSjin Trunks when he beat Frieza

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1148406

[hleV]

I am talking about SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1148406

When Piccolo fused with Kami, he was stronger than any Super Saiyan at the time.

[Kakashi]

I am talking about SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1148406

When Piccolo fused with Kami, he was stronger than any Super Saiyan at the time.

Piccolo was much stronger than SSjin Trunks when he beat Frieza before he fused with Kami

[hleV]

Before fusing with Kami, Piccolo was weaker than SS Trunks.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I dont remember that being stated anywhere, I thought that was more or less just a common fan assumption. So are you saying that new born Trunks and Goten with power levels of 5 could still turn Super Saiyan? I was always under the impression that a certain level of power had to be reached in order to become a super saiyan.

It is stated in Daizenshuu 4 & 7.

The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.

Trunks
Characteristics
The Trunks from the tragic future is serious and dutiful. Meanwhile, the one in the present is extremely different, being obstinate and full of bravado. He has surprising power for a child, including being able to transform into a Super Saiyan without even training, and managing to hit his father Vegeta once.

Son Goten
Characteristics
A boy filled with energy, just like his father. He loves Gohan, calling him "big bro, big bro", and the two often play together. He prefers play to study. Even without training, he is able to transform into a Super Saiyan.

I am talking about SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1148406

Piccolo is not necessarily stronger than Trunks. Piccolo overestimated himself because he was beating a guy that was supposed to have been much stronger than SS Vegeta, SS Gohan, and SS Trunks from the future. Kuririn compared him with the Super Saiyans, but he is not necessarily as strong as them, he could be just close to them. It could be interpreted as Piccolo > Trunks, but not necessarily, and it makes more sense to me that Piccolo never surpassed any Super Saiyan of Freeza before merging with Kami.

So, any other flaws in my list?

[hleV]

There's the fact that when the Androids OHKO SS Trunks, Piccolo and Tenshinhan, Piccolo says that even SS Trunks got OHKO'd, suggesting that SS Trunks was the strongest of the three.

Piccolo: “Don’t worry about it. Even Trunks as a Super Saiyan was done in with basically one blow. It wouldn’t have made any difference if you had come.”