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The same Kaioshin that was able to immobilize SSJ2 Gohan for a moment at the tournament and that Piccolo said was stronger than himself?Kakashi wrote:
Kaioshin who can one shot Freeza is arguably weaker than the Base Saiyans in the Boo Arc
He is talking about the Trunks that defeated Mecha Freeza, who could have gotten stronger after 6 months. I don't think that there is any argument about Piccolo being above Artificial Humans arc Trunks.hleV wrote:There's the fact that when the Androids OHKO SS Trunks, Piccolo and Tenshinhan, Piccolo says that even SS Trunks got OHKO'd, suggesting that SS Trunks was the strongest of the three.
Piccolo: “Don’t worry about it. Even Trunks as a Super Saiyan was done in with basically one blow. It wouldn’t have made any difference if you had come.”
Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo, who is much stronger than the base Saiyans.Kakashi wrote:Kaioshin who can one shot Freeza is arguably weaker than the Base Saiyans in the Boo Arc
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I am talking about SSjin Trunks when he beat FriezahleV wrote:Before fusing with Kami, Piccolo was weaker than SS Trunks.
Piccolo said that Kaioshin is in a different level which suggests he is even stronger than SSjin Gohan because SSjin Gohan is not a whole other level than Piccolo, sure he is way stronger but not a different level completelyDBZGTKOSDH wrote:It is stated in Daizenshuu 4 & 7.goku the krump dancer wrote:I dont remember that being stated anywhere, I thought that was more or less just a common fan assumption. So are you saying that new born Trunks and Goten with power levels of 5 could still turn Super Saiyan? I was always under the impression that a certain level of power had to be reached in order to become a super saiyan.
Piccolo was confident going against foes who beat Sjin Trunks before meeting the androidsDaizenshuu 4 wrote:The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.Daizenshuu 7 wrote:Trunks
Characteristics
The Trunks from the tragic future is serious and dutiful. Meanwhile, the one in the present is extremely different, being obstinate and full of bravado. He has surprising power for a child, including being able to transform into a Super Saiyan without even training, and managing to hit his father Vegeta once.
Son Goten
Characteristics
A boy filled with energy, just like his father. He loves Gohan, calling him "big bro, big bro", and the two often play together. He prefers play to study. Even without training, he is able to transform into a Super Saiyan.Piccolo is not necessarily stronger than Trunks. Piccolo overestimated himself because he was beating a guy that was supposed to have been much stronger than SS Vegeta, SS Gohan, and SS Trunks from the future. Kuririn compared him with the Super Saiyans, but he is not necessarily as strong as them, he could be just close to them. It could be interpreted as Piccolo > Trunks, but not necessarily, and it makes more sense to me that Piccolo never surpassed any Super Saiyan of Freeza before merging with Kami.Kakashi wrote:I am talking about SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza
http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1148406
So, any other flaws in my list?
Chapter: 335 (DBZ 141), P3.3-4hleV wrote:Where does the idea that Trunks in his 2nd appearance is any stronger than in his 1st appearance? It's not suggested at all.
Trunks was in the future for 6 months, and he was desperate to defeat the Artificial Humans. So, it's only logical to think that he was training hard.hleV wrote:Where does the idea that Trunks in his 2nd appearance is any stronger than in his 1st appearance? It's not suggested at all.
What are you talking about? During the Cell Games, SS Vegeta & Trunks were stronger than Piccolo, SS Goku was much stronger than SS Vegeta & Trunks, and SS Gohan was stronger than SS Goku. Since SS Gohan is much stronger than Kaioshin, and Kaioshin is much stronger than Piccolo. Meaning that SS Gohan is still much stronger than Piccolo.Kakashi wrote:Piccolo said that Kaioshin is in a different level which suggests he is even stronger than SSjin Gohan because SSjin Gohan is not a whole other level than Piccolo, sure he is way stronger but not a different level completely
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Argue with Piccolo and with Herms' comments about what he said.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Piccolo is NOT stronger than Kaioshin. That notion is highly illogical.
Kaioshin was the weakest Kai and there were another four KaioshnIns. Piccolo is stronger in the Boo Arc. There is no way Kaioshin can be much stronger than Piccolo but much weaker than SSjin Gohan with such a small gap. I posted a link which proves why it makes no sense in my earlier postsDBZGTKOSDH wrote:Trunks was in the future for 6 months, and he was desperate to defeat the Artificial Humans. So, it's only logical to think that he was training hard.hleV wrote:Where does the idea that Trunks in his 2nd appearance is any stronger than in his 1st appearance? It's not suggested at all.
What are you talking about? During the Cell Games, SS Vegeta & Trunks were stronger than Piccolo, SS Goku was much stronger than SS Vegeta & Trunks, and SS Gohan was stronger than SS Goku. Since SS Gohan is much stronger than Kaioshin, and Kaioshin is much stronger than Piccolo. Meaning that SS Gohan is still much stronger than Piccolo.Kakashi wrote:Piccolo said that Kaioshin is in a different level which suggests he is even stronger than SSjin Gohan because SSjin Gohan is not a whole other level than Piccolo, sure he is way stronger but not a different level completely
And again, what other flaws do you see in my list? Could you stop ignoring my question please?
Battle Of Gods is full of wrong thingsSSJ4_Zankuto wrote:Toriyama did write the script for Battle of Gods that includes gives lines for Beerus to say something about Base Saiyan can't beat Freeza, expect by turning into Super Saiyan to able to defeat Freeza. That means Freeza > Base Saiyan's is pretty much fact.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Trunks was in the future for 6 months, and he was desperate to defeat the Artificial Humans. So, it's only logical to think that he was training hard.hleV wrote:Where does the idea that Trunks in his 2nd appearance is any stronger than in his 1st appearance? It's not suggested at all.
What are you talking about? During the Cell Games, SS Vegeta & Trunks were stronger than Piccolo, SS Goku was much stronger than SS Vegeta & Trunks, and SS Gohan was stronger than SS Goku. Since SS Gohan is much stronger than Kaioshin, and Kaioshin is much stronger than Piccolo. Meaning that SS Gohan is still much stronger than Piccolo.Kakashi wrote:Piccolo said that Kaioshin is in a different level which suggests he is even stronger than SSjin Gohan because SSjin Gohan is not a whole other level than Piccolo, sure he is way stronger but not a different level completely
And again, what other flaws do you see in my list? Could you stop ignoring my question please?
Like what? We have a few inconsistencies, like Kaio's planet and Gohan turning SSJ, but other than that, there's not much else wrong with it. There's especially nothing wrong with it in terms of power scaling.Kakashi wrote:Battle Of Gods is full of wrong thingsSSJ4_Zankuto wrote:Toriyama did write the script for Battle of Gods that includes gives lines for Beerus to say something about Base Saiyan can't beat Freeza, expect by turning into Super Saiyan to able to defeat Freeza. That means Freeza > Base Saiyan's is pretty much fact.
SSjin 2 Vegeta doing better than Ultimate Gohan. Bulma being 38 years old. Satan not knowing Dende is a godTheMightyOzaru wrote:Like what? We have a few inconsistencies, like Kaio's planet and Gohan turning SSJ, but other than that, there's not much else wrong with it. There's especially nothing wrong with it in terms of power scaling.Kakashi wrote:Battle Of Gods is full of wrong thingsSSJ4_Zankuto wrote:Toriyama did write the script for Battle of Gods that includes gives lines for Beerus to say something about Base Saiyan can't beat Freeza, expect by turning into Super Saiyan to able to defeat Freeza. That means Freeza > Base Saiyan's is pretty much fact.
Based on what? Piccolo was scared to fight him and Piccolo in the Buu saga is stronger then he was in the Cell Games via power scaling. Kaioshin could beat Semi-Perfect Cell and I doubt Goku in his base form could beat Semi-Perfect Cell during the Buu saga.Kakashi wrote:
Kaioshin who can one shot Freeza is arguably weaker than the Base Saiyans in the Boo Arc
Vegeta fared better than Gohan because Vegeta caught Beers off guard and because Gohan was drunk. I won't make excuses for Bulma's age, that is a mistake. It's been 5 years since Mr Satans brief interaction with Dende. It gives him time to forget. Mr Satan is also drunk in that scene.Kakashi wrote:SSjin 2 Vegeta doing better than Ultimate Gohan. Bulma being 38 years old. Satan not knowing Dende is a god
His assumptions are based on Dabura's statement about the 3 huge powers hiding on the cliff.Hellspawn28 wrote:Based on what? Piccolo was scared to fight him and Piccolo in the Buu saga is stronger then he was in the Cell Games via power scaling. Kaioshin could beat Semi-Perfect Cell and I doubt Goku in his base form could beat Semi-Perfect Cell during the Buu saga.Kakashi wrote:
Kaioshin who can one shot Freeza is arguably weaker than the Base Saiyans in the Boo Arc
Except that this seems to be the case. Piccolo probably reached his limits after RoSaT, and he probably realized that as much as he would train, he would never reach Cell, since he didn't enter for a 2nd time. So, his gains after 7 years should have been small, especially when he is completely useless in Boo arc. And since there was a huge gap between SS Gohan & Piccolo in the Cell Games, it seems that the gap between them has remained huge after 7 years.Kakashi wrote:Kaioshin was the weakest Kai and there were another four KaioshnIns. Piccolo is stronger in the Boo Arc. There is no way Kaioshin can be much stronger than Piccolo but much weaker than SSjin Gohan with such a small gap.
This conclusion came thanks to fan-made BPs, which proves nothing.Kakashi wrote:I posted a link which proves why it makes no sense in my earlier posts
He said that it took 6 months for the Time Machine to recharge when he returned, but when he was going to return to the past to tell the news about him killing the Artificial Humans, we were told that it took 3 years for the Time Machine to recharge... so, either there were problems with the Time Machine during the 2nd recharge, or it's a plot hole.kuartus4 wrote:Where does it say that trunks was in the future for only six months? I thought it was three years.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
The battle powers are based on factsDBZGTKOSDH wrote:Except that this seems to be the case. Piccolo probably reached his limits after RoSaT, and he probably realized that as much as he would train, he would never reach Cell, since he didn't enter for a 2nd time. So, his gains after 7 years should have been small, especially when he is completely useless in Boo arc. And since there was a huge gap between SS Gohan & Piccolo in the Cell Games, it seems that the gap between them has remained huge after 7 years.Kakashi wrote:Kaioshin was the weakest Kai and there were another four KaioshnIns. Piccolo is stronger in the Boo Arc. There is no way Kaioshin can be much stronger than Piccolo but much weaker than SSjin Gohan with such a small gap.
This conclusion came thanks to fan-made BPs, which proves nothing.Kakashi wrote:I posted a link which proves why it makes no sense in my earlier posts
He said that it took 6 months for the Time Machine to recharge when he returned, but when he was going to return to the past to tell the news about him killing the Artificial Humans, we were told that it took 3 years for the Time Machine to recharge... so, either there were problems with the Time Machine during the 2nd recharge, or it's a plot hole.kuartus4 wrote:Where does it say that trunks was in the future for only six months? I thought it was three years.
