Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Frieza?

[TheMightyOzaru]

They are based on interpretations, not facts.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The battle powers are based on facts

They are based on interpretations, not facts.

^This. It's the poster's (is that guy you?) opinion that Piccolo's BP is 700.000.000, #18's BP is 640.000.000, etc, and it's his opinion that 2nd Form Cell is 10 times stronger than Piccolo.

[TheGmGoken]

SSjin 2 Vegeta doing better than Ultimate Gohan. Bulma being 38 years old. Satan not knowing Dende is a god

SSj2 Vegeta also got a rage boost and is a better fighter. Gohan was drunk. Satan was with Dende for like what 15 min to 9 hours(Fan made time) and he was drunk. Don't see how that's a plot hole. Bulma age was a plothole I admit

[TheMightyOzaru]

The battle powers are based on facts

They are based on interpretations, not facts.

^This. It's the poster's (is that guy you?) opinion that Piccolo's BP is 700.000.000, #18's BP is 640.000.000, etc, and it's his opinion that 2nd Form Cell is 10 times stronger than Piccolo.

Funny, those seem very similar to my very very old power levels .

[Kakashi]

They are based on interpretations, not facts.

Alright, SSjin Trunks was implied to be able to beat full power Mecha Frieza who was at least as strong as SSjin Goku on Namek which makes him at least around 200,000,000 and SSjin Goku was stronger than SSjin Trunks

Androids Saga SSjin Goku is way stronger and even Piccolo was much stronger than SSjin Trunks and since I don't want to keep explaining an obvious thing

Boo Arc MSSjin Goku >> Cell Games MSSjin Goku >> 50% MSSjin Goku >> USSjin Trunks >> 10 Days SSjin Goku >> ASSjin Vegeta >> Semi Perfect Cell > SSjin Vegeta > Initial Semi Perfect Cell >>> Imperfect Cell > Piccolo's Makankosappo >>> Kamiccolo ~ Android 17 > Android 18 >> SSjin Vegeta > SSjin Goku > Androids Saga Piccolo >> Sick SSjin Goku > SSjin Goku (Trunks Saga) > SSjin Trunks >> Mecha Frieza > SSjin Goku (Namek)
Explain how such big gaps make the Base Saiyans weaker than Frieza when Imperfect Cell should be several times stronger than Kamiccolo based on his Makankosappo tanking

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well, the scaling isn't too far off, but the numbers are. Trunks doesn't have to be 200,000,000, that's absurd. I have him at 160,000,000. I also have the C-17 and Piccolo at 360,000,000 and I have Cell and C-16 at 500,000,000.

[Kakashi]

The battle powers are based on facts

They are based on interpretations, not facts.

^This. It's the poster's (is that guy you?) opinion that Piccolo's BP is 700.000.000, #18's BP is 640.000.000, etc, and it's his opinion that 2nd Form Cell is 10 times stronger than Piccolo.

They are based on statements

Kamiccolo is way stronger than the Androids Saga SSjins who are stronger than Androids Saga Piccolo who is way stronger than SSjin Trunks when he beat Frieza based on the fact he was confident going against the Androids who he thought would be much stronger than SSjin Trunks who was much stronger than Mecha Frieza who was at least as strong as SSjin Goku on Namek so how is 700,000,000 for Kamiccolo is an opinion when the Androids Saga SSjins are logically over 300,000,000nat least

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Artificial Human arc SSJs are under 300 Mill IMO. There's nothing implying the Artificial Human arc SSJs have to be in the 300 millions.

[Kakashi]

Well, the scaling isn't too far off, but the numbers are. Trunks doesn't have to be 200,000,000, that's absurd. I have him at 160,000,000. I also have the C-17 and Piccolo at 360,000,000 and I have Cell and C-16 at 500,000,000.

SSjin Trunks was implied to be able to take on full power Mecha Frieza who was at least as strong a SSjin Goku on Namek o SSjin Trunks can't be weaker tthan 200,000,000

Also, Piccolo should be much stronger than SSjin Trunks in the Androids Saga and was implied to be at least 2X stronger than before

Imperfect Cell (Post Humans) tanked Piccolo's Light Grenade which makes him several times stronger than Kamiccolo

[Kakashi]

The Artificial Human arc SSJs are under 300 Mill IMO. There's nothing implying the Artificial Human arc SSJs have to be in the 300 millions.

SSjin Goku after Yardat is at least at 200,000,000 so is he below 300,000,000? Also, Androids Saga Piccolo >> SSjin Trunks and SSjin Goku in the Trunks Saga

[TheMightyOzaru]

Where are you getting these numbers? They aren't fact so why do you treat them as such? Twice as strong? Says who? Mecha Freeza doesn't have to be stronger than SSJ Goku. He just has to be confident he can beat him with the help of his father. I have Mecha Freeza packing 140,000,000.

The Artificial Human arc SSJs are under 300 Mill IMO. There's nothing implying the Artificial Human arc SSJs have to be in the 300 millions.

SSjin Goku after Yardat is at least at 200,000,000 so is he below 300,000,000? Also, Androids Saga Piccolo >> SSjin Trunks and SSjin Goku in the Trunks Saga

The problem is Goku ISN'T at least 200,000,000. That's again, a random number you pulled from out of nowhere.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The battle powers are based on facts

They are based on interpretations, not facts.

^This. It's the poster's (is that guy you?) opinion that Piccolo's BP is 700.000.000, #18's BP is 640.000.000, etc, and it's his opinion that 2nd Form Cell is 10 times stronger than Piccolo.

They are based on statements

Kamiccolo is way stronger than the Androids Saga SSjins who are stronger than Androids Saga Piccolo who is way stronger than SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza based on the fact he was confident going against the Androids who he thought would be much stronger than SSjin Trunks who was much stronger than Mecha Freeza who was at least as strong as SSjin Goku on Namek so how is 700,000,000 for Kamiccolo is an opinion when the Androids Saga SSjins are logically over 300,000,000nat least

From the available statements & feats, we can tell who is stronger than who, but we can't tell how much stronger. So, no, they are based on interpretations, not facts.

[Kakashi]

Where are you getting these numbers? They aren't fact so why do you treat them as such? Twice as strong? Says who? Mecha Freeza doesn't have to be stronger than SSJ Goku. He just has to be confident he can beat him with the help of his father. I have Mecha Freeza packing 140,000,000.

The Artificial Human arc SSJs are under 300 Mill IMO. There's nothing implying the Artificial Human arc SSJs have to be in the 300 millions.

SSjin Goku after Yardat is at least at 200,000,000 so is he below 300,000,000? Also, Androids Saga Piccolo >> SSjin Trunks and SSjin Goku in the Trunks Saga

The problem is Goku ISN'T at least 200,000,000. That's again, a random number you pulled from out of nowhere.

Mecha Frieza said he might be able to take on SSjin Goku and was somewhat confident. SSjin Trunks was said to be able to easily beat full power Mecha Frieza so how is SSjin Goku weaker than 200,000,000?

Again Anddroids Saga Piccolo >> SSjin Trunks is proven when Piccolo was confident fighting foes who are stronger than SSjin Trunks and Androids Saga SSjin Goku is even stronger than Piccolo. Even Sick SSjin Goku > SSjin Goku (Yardat) is implied so how can he be that low?

[Kakashi]

The battle powers are based on facts

They are based on interpretations, not facts.

^This. It's the poster's (is that guy you?) opinion that Piccolo's BP is 700.000.000, #18's BP is 640.000.000, etc, and it's his opinion that 2nd Form Cell is 10 times stronger than Piccolo.

They are based on statements

Kamiccolo is way stronger than the Androids Saga SSjins who are stronger than Androids Saga Piccolo who is way stronger than SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza based on the fact he was confident going against the Androids who he thought would be much stronger than SSjin Trunks who was much stronger than Mecha Freeza who was at least as strong as SSjin Goku on Namek so how is 700,000,000 for Kamiccolo is an opinion when the Androids Saga SSjins are logically over 300,000,000nat least

From the available statements & feats, we can tell who is stronger than who, but we can't tell how much stronger. So, no, they are based on interpretations, not facts.[/quote]

Androids Saga Piccolo is confident beating foes who were much stronger than SSjin Trunks who was much stronger than Mecha Frieza who was at least as strong as SSjin Goku on Namek. SSJin Goku in the Androids Saga is even stronger than Piccolo so how are the Androids Saga SSjins lower than 300,000,000?

[TheMightyOzaru]

No, Mecha Freeza was confident he could take on Goku with the help of his father. He's also an arrogant villain sooooo he doesn't have to be stronger. Honestly, Kakashi, get back to me when you stop pulling numbers from a hat, and calling them fact. I have no intention of debating with someone who sees fan created power levels as fact.
EDIT: Ok, this is getting ridiculous. VegettoEX, Kaboom, somebody, do something about this guys posting habits.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Androids Saga Piccolo is confident beating foes who were much stronger than SSjin Trunks

No, Piccolo was beating foes that were supposed to be stronger than SS Trunks. However, it turned out that these guys are not the same guys that Trunks was talking about.

[Darkprince410]

Mecha Freeza said he might be able to take on SSjin Goku and was somewhat confident. SSjin Trunks was said to be able to easily beat full power Mecha Freeza so how is SSjin Goku weaker than 200,000,000?

Again Anddroids Saga Piccolo >> SSjin Trunks is proven when Piccolo was confident fighting foes who are stronger than SSjin Trunks and Androids Saga SSjin Goku is even stronger than Piccolo. Even Sick SSjin Goku > SSjin Goku (Yardat) is implied so how can he be that low?

Freeza was an extremely arrogant individual, and given that he was, at least in his opinion, probably fighting evenly with Goku at 120,000,000, might be content at sitting at 150,000,000 and feeling he has an advantage. This would give Trunks and Goku both plenty of room to be stronger than Freeza and still be under 200,000,000.

There's no evidence that #19 and #20 were stronger than Trunks though, given that they weren't the same individuals, nor even close to the same strength, as the ones that Trunks faced in his timeline. Between what he saw between Goku and #19, the fact that Gero hadn't stud an important part of the Z Senshi's development (the events of Namek) and his own experience being held in the grasps of Gero, Piccolo might have realized that he was strong enough to be able to beat Gero on his own, despite not being stronger than Trunks.

[goku the krump dancer]

I dont remember that being stated anywhere, I thought that was more or less just a common fan assumption. So are you saying that new born Trunks and Goten with power levels of 5 could still turn Super Saiyan? I was always under the impression that a certain level of power had to be reached in order to become a super saiyan.

It is stated in Daizenshuu 4 & 7.

The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.

Trunks
Characteristics
The Trunks from the tragic future is serious and dutiful. Meanwhile, the one in the present is extremely different, being obstinate and full of bravado. He has surprising power for a child, including being able to transform into a Super Saiyan without even training, and managing to hit his father Vegeta once.

Son Goten
Characteristics
A boy filled with energy, just like his father. He loves Gohan, calling him "big bro, big bro", and the two often play together. He prefers play to study. Even without training, he is able to transform into a Super Saiyan.[/quote}

The thing is though while they do say without training, it also says they're born with outstanding power. I take "without training" to mean they didnt have push themselves no where near as hard as their fathers did.

The way I see it, the tailless Hybrids' power is something like a beaver damn thats ready to burst with just the slightest push. In the manga Goten says he was trained by his mom while Gohan had his nose in the books. Obviously training with ChiChi isn't going to make him that powerful but like the Daizenshuu says they're born with crazy power so in support of my beaver damn comparison, even just the slightest push (ChiChi's training) was enough to awaken the SSJ power inside of little Goten strangely without Gohan noticing.

With present Trunks, Bulma says to Gohan that Vegeta started training him almost as soon as he was able to walk. Obviously Vegeta isnt going to be throwing his toddler son into a 400x earths gravity chamber (because he doesnt want to kill him and I'm sure Bulma wasn't having it) but i'm sure some form of light training ensued and somewhere along the line, Trunks reached SSJ strangely without his father noticing.

To me, at the very least a power equal to Goku's during the final showdown with Freeza is needed to in order to become a Super Saiyan. Other wise Trunks being able to nick his dad on the cheek and Goten catching his brother off guard with how fast he could throw those stones wouldn't make any sense.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goten and Trunks are as powerful as they are because they work off each other. Goten says they sparred a lot. That's many years of sparring, and we've seen the results of sparring between Goku and Gohan when they were in the ROSAT for LESS than a year.

[Kakashi]

No, Mecha Freeza was confident he could take on Goku with the help of his father. He's also an arrogant villain sooooo he doesn't have to be stronger. Honestly, Kakashi, get back to me when you stop pulling numbers from a hat, and calling them fact. I have no intention of debating with someone who sees fan created power levels as fact.
EDIT: Ok, this is getting ridiculous. VegettoEX, Kaboom, somebody, do something about this guys posting habits.

I am not saying the power levels are facts. The statements just prove that the levels should be much greater where the Base Saiyans must be stronger than Frieza and no, Frieza said he probably can beat Goku alone

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

You still keep ignnoring Androids Saga Piccolo >> SSjin Trunks (Trunks Saga) and the whole Cell tanking Piccolo's attack which should make him several times stronger than Piccolo

DBZGTKOSDH, Piccolo was confident going against foes who he thought easily beat SSjin Trunks. It's before he met the Androids

Chapter 337 (DBZ 143), P1.3-4, P2.1
Piccolo: “How about it, Son Goku…Frankly, do you think we can win against this enemy…”
Goku: “There’s no way I could know that without even seeing them. I’ll answer once I give it a try.”
Piccolo: “You’re pretty carefree…It’s not like I lack confidence…However, I can’t clear this uneasy premonition from
my mind…”

Piccolo is confident going againstg enemies who should be stronger than SSjin Trunks

Darkprince410, Frieza is stronger than what he was on Namek so he should be at least equal to SSjin Goku because he was not leagues below him until his stanima started dropping, Goku was quite stronger than Trunks so no way he is less than 200,000,000 IMO

Again, I am not talking about Piccolo when he fought Android 20
When Goku, Piccolo and Gohan left Goku's home to go to the island, Piccolo says he has a bad premonition but he was confident in his power. That was when he still thought they were going to meet the same androids Trunks told them about

Krillin even says Piccolo is SSjin level and the weakest SSjin hee had felt was SSjin Trunks