Cell's Zenkai Boost

[thatdbzguy]

Cell obviously got a zenkai boost after he blew himself up and regenerated. However, why did he come back as strong as he did? Regeneration usually takes energy and weakens whoever used it, as seen before with Piccolo and Cell pre-explosion. Even with a zenkai boost, do you think Cell should have come back as strong as he did?

[Super Vegetto]

He came back as strong as he did because he got Zenkai.

Regeneration doesn't take so much energy.

[hleV]

I think that on top of a zenkai, Cell has also undergone a pseudo-Super Saiyan 2 transformation.

[Kakarot88]

Cell obviously got a zenkai boost after he blew himself up and regenerated. However, why did he come back as strong as he did? Regeneration usually takes energy and weakens whoever used it, as seen before with Piccolo and Cell pre-explosion. Even with a zenkai boost, do you think Cell should have come back as strong as he did?

It is one of the worst deus ex machina's of the series! Cell in just the previous volume gets Instant Transmission Kamehamehaed (verb?) by Goku and Goku is all like "you've spent a lot of your Ki now!" and Cell agrees and even later takes a senzu from Son Goku. PLUS every time Piccolo did it he's like "I lost a bunch of ki" or "that took a lot of ki"

...BUT it all goes out the window when Cell comes back and is all "Yo so I just regenerated from nothing and and I HAVE SO MUCH MORE POWER!!! MUAHAHAHA" and No one is like wait what "I thought you just regenerated and last time..." cuz Cell cuts them off with his "Cell: I have enough Ki to blow away the entire solar system" to which everyone goes

Yeah it is some def deus ex machina

[Kamiccolo9]

Cell obviously got a zenkai boost after he blew himself up and regenerated. However, why did he come back as strong as he did? Regeneration usually takes energy and weakens whoever used it, as seen before with Piccolo and Cell pre-explosion. Even with a zenkai boost, do you think Cell should have come back as strong as he did?

It is one of the worst deus ex machina's of the series! Cell in just the previous volume gets Instant Transmission Kamehamehaed (verb?) by Goku and Goku is all like "you've spent a lot of your Ki now!" and Cell agrees and even later takes a senzu from Son Goku. PLUS every time Piccolo did it he's like "I lost a bunch of ki" or "that took a lot of ki"

...BUT it all goes out the window when Cell comes back and is all "Yo so I just regenerated from nothing and and I HAVE SO MUCH MORE POWER!!! MUAHAHAHA" and No one is like wait what "I thought you just regenerated and last time..." cuz Cell cuts them off with his "Cell: I have enough Ki to blow away the entire solar system" to which everyone goes

Yeah it is some def deus ex machina

Cell wasn't near death those other times. He has Freeza's cells, remember? He can survive virtually anything. The only time he almost died was when he blew himself up, so that was the only time he received a near-death power up.

[Kakarot88]

The only time he almost died was when he blew himself up, so that was the only time he received a near-death power up.

...huh? what does that have to do with anything?

Every time Cell had to partially regenerate he lost power

Then he does a full regeneration he magically gains power

If your rationale is that the near death power up cancels out the partial regeneration loss of power then that's totally fine, but it is some out of left field deus ex machina because every other instance of mere partial regeneration Cell lost power.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Being near dead for Cell apparently means he has to be reduced to his core.

[Super Vegetto]

The only time he almost died was when he blew himself up, so that was the only time he received a near-death power up.

...huh? what does that have to do with anything?

Every time Cell had to partially regenerate he lost power

Then he does a full regeneration he magically gains power

If your rationale is that the near death power up cancels out the partial regeneration loss of power then that's totally fine, but it is some out of left field deus ex machina because every other instance of mere partial regeneration Cell lost power.

He was more of "Reborning", than regenerating.

He wasn't anywhere close to near death exp until he self destructed. It seams that his saiyan genes for Zenkai work only when he does self destruction, leaving only core that makes his status "close to death", which is result of zenkai and ofc regeneration...

[Kamiccolo9]

The only time he almost died was when he blew himself up, so that was the only time he received a near-death power up.

...huh? what does that have to do with anything?

Every time Cell had to partially regenerate he lost power

Then he does a full regeneration he magically gains power

If your rationale is that the near death power up cancels out the partial regeneration loss of power then that's totally fine, but it is some out of left field deus ex machina because every other instance of mere partial regeneration Cell lost power.

How is it "out of left field?" We knew from the beginning that he had Saiyan cells. What do Saiyans do when they heal from near death? They get stronger.
We also knew that he had Freeza's cells. Freeza was capable of surviving in almost any state, so in order for Cell to be near death, he had to be in an extremely damaged condition, such as being reduced to his core, since merely being blown apart didn't seem like much of a problem for him.
He didn't "magically gain power." He took advantage of a known power boosting method, that he was established to have from the moment we found out his origin. There's no Deus ex Machina here; Cell's zenkai didn't come out of nowhere, we knew he had Saiyan cells, and thus the ability to receive near-death power ups.

[Kakarot88]

dude out of left field is him having no fatigue or any energy loss and just pure gain...from healing...every other time he healed he had a loss of power ...the zenkai boost always gave people a power up after being healed, and the healing came from an external source such as a chamber, senzu, or dende. Here Cell healed himself (which depletes energy) yet somehow his energy is fully restored lol...I'd be fine with it if he had the boost and some of his power went away but no he has 100% full power back and a boost so yes left field

[Kamiccolo9]

dude out of left field is him having no fatigue or any energy loss and just pure gain...from healing...every other time he healed he had a loss of power ...the zenkai boost always gave people a power up after being healed, and the healing came from an external source such as a chamber, senzu, or dende. Here Cell healed himself (which depletes energy) yet somehow his energy is fully restored lol...I'd be fine with it if he had the boost and some of his power went away but no he has 100% full power back and a boost so yes left field

Saiyans don't get stronger after healing from any injury; they get stronger from healing from near-death. Cell was only near death when he blew himself up. Therefore, thats the only time he got stronger from healing. You don't seem to get that.

[rereboy]

dude out of left field is him having no fatigue or any energy loss and just pure gain...from healing...every other time he healed he had a loss of power ...the zenkai boost always gave people a power up after being healed, and the healing came from an external source such as a chamber, senzu, or dende. Here Cell healed himself (which depletes energy) yet somehow his energy is fully restored lol...I'd be fine with it if he had the boost and some of his power went away but no he has 100% full power back and a boost so yes left field

He still lost power when he regenerated, but his zenkai more than compensated for that. As for why he only had a zenkai at that point, as it has been said, it probably was the first time ever he was close to death. So, the only question is why he had such a huge zenkai, but zenkais had always been inconsistent regarding the power gained prior to that and Cell's unique genetic make-up might have helped in boosting the power gained via zenkai.

[Kakarot88]

dude out of left field is him having no fatigue or any energy loss and just pure gain...from healing...every other time he healed he had a loss of power ...the zenkai boost always gave people a power up after being healed, and the healing came from an external source such as a chamber, senzu, or dende. Here Cell healed himself (which depletes energy) yet somehow his energy is fully restored lol...I'd be fine with it if he had the boost and some of his power went away but no he has 100% full power back and a boost so yes left field

Saiyans don't get stronger after healing from any injury; they get stronger from healing from near-death. Cell was only near death when he blew himself up. Therefore, thats the only time he got stronger from healing. You don't seem to get that.

Do you think I do not known that or are you just trying to respond? Your response has nothing to do with what I wrote so I can only assume it was done so you could state what you do know. My one and only thing I have been saying is this and only this:

Cell gets the Saiyan boost [zenkai] from blowing himself up [problem with that is it was self inflicted but that is for a diff topic] (I accept and we agree)
Cell every other time he has healed lost power (I accept and assume you do too)
This time Cells healing had no loss of power and just straight gain (I accept cuz that's what is written but it is out of left field for a regeneration to not consume a massive amount of ki especially from near death)

He still lost power when he regenerated, but his zenkai more than compensated for that. As for why he only had a zenkai at that point, as it has been said, it probably was the first time ever he was close to death. So, the only question is why he had such a huge zenkai, but zenkais had always been inconsistent regarding the power gained prior to that and Cell's unique genetic make-up might have helped in boosting the power gained via zenkai.

I have never heard or read that Cell lost any power, only that he made gains. The manga in that regard does not to my knowledge say he lost power. Granted, I've only read viz's and some stuff on here and watched the anime with subtitles and none say he lost power. In fact in the anime I recall he says his power was fully restored and greater than before.

Granted he got the boost from a self inflicted wound so there's that...

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku got zenkais from self-inflicted wounds on the way to Namek, so, if anything, Vegeta's statement about needing Krillin to injure him is the contradictory one, since we have more evidence to the contrary.

Do you think I do not known that or are you just trying to respond? Your response has nothing to do with what I wrote so I can only assume it was done so you could state what you do know. My one and only thing I have been saying is this and only this:

Cell gets the Saiyan boost [zenkai] from blowing himself up [problem with that is it was self inflicted but that is for a diff topic] (I accept and we agree)
Cell every other time he has healed lost power (I accept and assume you do too)
This time Cells healing had no loss of power and just straight gain (I accept cuz that's what is written but it is out of left field for a regeneration to not consume a massive amount of ki especially from near death)

I was taking issue with your assertion that Cell's zenkai was a Deus ex Machina. It's obviously not, since we had known ever since his origin was revealed that Cell had Saiyan traits. One of these traits is the ability to gain a near death power up. Cell gets one of these power ups due to his Saiyan traits, which we have known to exist for a long time. Therefore, it is not a Deus ex Machina, since this didn't "appear out of nowhere," and actually has a firm basis in what we have known of Cell's capabilities for a long time.
Obviously, the zenkai was potent enough to overcome whatever drain the regeneration would cause. It wasn't worth mentioning, so nobody ever did.

[Kakarot88]

Goku got zenkais from self-inflicted wounds on the way to Namek, so, if anything, Vegeta's statement about needing Krillin to injure him is the contradictory one, since we have more evidence to the contrary.

Goku's were not purposefully self inflicted, he was not trying to harm himself, he lacked intent. In contrast Vegeta had intent to harm himself for the boost and Cell had intent to harm others by harming himself and admits his survival was accidental. So you could rationalize that Cell too lacked intent because his intent was not to get the boost. It's not really important, my point was simply the whole event is somewhat contradictory but badass so who gives a damn?

[rereboy]

I have never heard or read that Cell lost any power, only that he made gains.

Its assumed. The manga demonstrates that he loses at least some power when he regenerates like the Namekians do. However, in this case he had a zenkai as he was regenerating and became more powerful than before. There is no reason to assume that his regeneration worked any differently than before, just that he had a very powerful zenkai as he was regenerating. Therefore, IMO, the logical conclusion is that if he had no zenkai, he would be weaker than he was before self-destructing because he would lose power. But, since he also had a massive zenkai, what he gained was more than enough to compensate that and make him way stronger.

Goku's were not purposefully self inflicted, he was not trying to harm himself, he lacked intent.

That's not true. He fired several Kamehamehas on himself on his way to Namek on purpose to toughen himself up (and also because he had the senzu to heal him in a instant). His intent was clear. It training on his spaceship was pretty extreme and only possible because of the senzu, but Goku felt that he needed to go to such extremes. And he was right.

[Kakarot88]

I have never heard or read that Cell lost any power, only that he made gains.

Its assumed.

"Its assumed"...BOOM! Now that's exactly what I'm talking about. Assumptions. It's logical sure, but it is an assumption.

Goku's were not purposefully self inflicted, he was not trying to harm himself, he lacked intent.

That's not true. He fired several Kamehamehas on himself on his way to Namek on purpose to toughen himself up (and also because he had the senzu to heal him in a instant). His intent was clear. It training on his spaceship was pretty extreme and only possible because of the senzu, but Goku felt that he needed to go to such extremes. And he was right.

There is a difference between intending to harm oneself to get a boost and harming oneself by accident through training to get a boost. It's like intentional torts versus negligence.

[Godo]

For Cell to just regenerate at that form would mean that he would come back as his second form, not his Perfect form.
So apparently he didn't just regenerate.

If we take into consideration that the Saiya-jins zenkai make them physically stronger and more powerful , Cell's type of zenkai would also do this.
But due to Cell being a mashup of other organisms, his core would still deem his Perfect form as more stronger and powerful, making him reach that form upon regeneration.
On top of that, the zenkai he gained was massive, so regenerating wouldn't bother him at all.
Compare this to Piccolo regenerating his arm versus first form Cell, and later in the Buu arc he regenerates his whole body without being affected.

All of this is assumption, though.

[kuartus4]

I think the principal source of cell's power up was his ssj2 equivalent transformation, which he unlocked after almost killing himself. If he got an additional zenkai boost then it should be minimal since a huge zenkai in addition to a new transformation should put him way above ssj2 gohan, and most people have Super perfect cell on par or just slightly stronger than gohan.

This also answers the whole question of how cell was revitalized to full power after such a massive regeneration, when previous regenerations sapped his power while being less extensive. Similar to how goku was revitalized from his ssj transformation against frieza, cell could also have been revitalized from his ssj2 equivalent transformation.

[rereboy]

"Its assumed"...BOOM! Now that's exactly what I'm talking about. Assumptions. It's logical sure, but it is an assumption.

So you only take things that are outright stated in the manga? Some things don't need to be flat out stated. Unless you are a fan of one of those complicated theories that suggests that this regeneration was different from the ones before since the ones before didn't rely on his core (since he had his head blown off) and that's why the ones before used up his power while this one didn't, I don't see any other conclusion for what we see in the manga. What I said doesn't even qualify as a theory, its just quite literally the natural conclusion.

There is a difference between intending to harm oneself to get a boost and harming oneself by accident through training to get a boost. It's like intentional torts versus negligence.

Goku fired the Kamehamehas and stood there to take them in the face. He did it on purpose being fully aware that he was gonna get badly hurt but without worrying about it because he had the senzu to heal him. And he did it over and over, which is why he used up almost a full bag of senzu before arriving on Namek.

He had never trained like that, nor did he ever train like that again. He did it because he was short on time and he had plenty of senzu available. His actions were fully intentional.

What you are describing, getting hurt by accident, is something like what happened to Vegeta while training for the androids in the filler of the anime (he was hurt by a ki explosion aimed at a droid). This was NOT what happened to Goku at all.