The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kibitoshin vs SSJ2 Gohan(25th Budokai)

[Tyro]

Kibitoshin

Do we even have anything to work with in the manga to get a start at this guy? We know he's weaker than Evil Boo (Gotenks absorbed) and most likely regular ol' Evil Boo as well. Trying to estimate his strength ties into the confusing realm of "just how fucking strong were Kaioshin and Kibito in the first place" in conjunction with "what's your best guess for how fusion works" to which everyone has their own opinion.

Yeah, I don't even.

[TheMightyOzaru]

We already know how strong Kibito is. He's about as strong as base Gohan. Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo but weaker than Dabura. Yes, you will have decide how fusion works in order to come to a conclusion of how strong Kibitoshin is, but some people have their opinions on that so it's a valid question. I personally think these 2 are about even.

[Kamiccolo9]

Kibitoshin

Do we even have anything to work with in the manga to get a start at this guy? We know he's weaker than Evil Boo (Gotenks absorbed) and most likely regular ol' Evil Boo as well. Trying to estimate his strength ties into the confusing realm of "just how fucking strong were Kaioshin and Kibito in the first place" in conjunction with "what's your best guess for how fusion works" to which everyone has their own opinion.

Yeah, I don't even.

Well, the manga would also indicate that he's most likely weaker than Vegeta. As I see it, since Kibito and Kaioshin weren't really compatible fusees, their fusion wasn't all that amazing. I would put him in low-mid SSJ2 tier.

I can see Kibitoshin taking this. Going by their performances against Fat Buu, Kaioshin was more or less comparable to SSJ Gohan, so if the fusion at least doubled his power, he would be more or less comparable to SSJ2. But since we know that fusion does more than add powers together, a 2x boost seems too low. I'd put Kibitoshin around Cell Games-SSJ2 Gohan.

[Tyro]

Well, the manga would also indicate that he's most likely weaker than Vegeta. As I see it, since Kibito and Kaioshin weren't really compatible fusees, their fusion wasn't all that amazing. I would put him in low-mid SSJ2 tier.

What makes you think Kaioshin (post-fusion) is weaker than SS2 Vegeta? And what do you mean when you say that Kaioshin and Kibito weren't compatible? I'm guessing this has something to do with a "rival boost."

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, the manga would also indicate that he's most likely weaker than Vegeta. As I see it, since Kibito and Kaioshin weren't really compatible fusees, their fusion wasn't all that amazing. I would put him in low-mid SSJ2 tier.

What makes you think Kaioshin (post-fusion) is weaker than SS2 Vegeta? And what do you mean when you say that Kaioshin and Kibito weren't compatible? I'm guessing this has something to do with a "rival boost."

Well, the only thing we really have to go on is the Old Kaioshin saying that Kibitoshin would be useless against Buu while not saying anything about Vegeta going. And he also calls Vegeta one of the "3 greatest in the universe," and is obviously not including Kibitoshin in that group. But that can all be explained away, I suppose.

As for the compatibility thing, yeah, it kinda ties into the rival boost. But also the rules for fusion in general. Kibito and Kaioshin were different sizes and different strengths. While them being the same isn't a prerequisite for Potara fusion like it is for the fusion dance, I like to think that the more compatible the fusees are, the more potent the fusion would be. So Kibitoshin wouldn't be worlds above Kaioshin.

Also, if you look at Kibitoshin, he seems more like a power up for Kaioshin than a fusion. Kibito's personality doesn't really seem to exist anymore, which fits, since he was subservient to Kaioshin in life, he is the recessive member of the fusion. Kind of an "anti-rival boost" thing. If that makes any sense

[Super Vegetto]

Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P11.2-4
Context: right after Kaioshin and Kibito merge
Kaioshin: “Oooh! Am-amazing! This is amazing power! Hahaah! [ ] Goku! I can fight too like this! I’ll go with you!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Don’t get carried away! No matter how strong you’ve become, you were never anything special. I doubt you could fight Boo head-on; you’d just end up getting absorbed. So stay here.”

Bootenks > Kaioshin > Gohan > Goku

[Kamiccolo9]

Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P11.2-4
Context: right after Kaioshin and Kibito merge
Kaioshin: “Oooh! Am-amazing! This is amazing power! Hahaah! [ ] Goku! I can fight too like this! I’ll go with you!”
Elder Kaioshin: “Don’t get carried away! No matter how strong you’ve become, you were never anything special. I doubt you could fight Boo head-on; you’d just end up getting absorbed. So stay here.”

Bootenks > Kaioshin > Gohan > Goku

How is Kibitoshin above Gohan? Old Kaioshin even goes on to say that Kaioshin was never anything special. And if he was so strong, why didn't he try to fight Pure Buu? And why were Goku and Vegeta said to be two of the top 3 in the universe, while Kaioshin was flat-out told that he wasn't good enough?

All that quote proves is that he got stronger, the power went to his head, and then got slapped down by Old Kaioshin. It provides nothing in terms of strength comparison.

[hleV]

It's pretty hard to tell where Kibitoshin stands power-wise. The elder Kaioshin points out that Kibitoshin shouldn't go to the battlefield because he's nothing special and would get absorbed (implying that he's worthy of being absorbed). But then he doesn't go fight Pure Boo neither, which SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta and Mr. Boo do.

At the very least he should be below SS Gotenks (SS Gotenks is made of 2 SS-tier fighters while Kibitoshin is made of 1 SS-tier and one base Saiyan-tier fighters, and I doubt Potara's superiority over Metamorian Fusion makes up for that).

[Kid Buu]

Tenshinan, Krillin, Yamcha, & Chiaotzu Vs. Jeice, Burter, Recoome, & Guldo

Equal power levels.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Jeice and Burter have the seizure procedure so they win.

[RandomGuy96]

Tenshinan, Krillin, Yamcha, & Chiaotzu Vs. Jeice, Burter, Recoome, & Guldo

Equal power levels.

The humans are in deep shit; the Ginyus all have superior physical attributes, though not techniques. They can pull a win with smarts, but the Ginyus aren't idiots (at least, I don't think they are). I'm giving it to the GInyus 6/10 times.

...unless Tenshithax uses that one move, in which case the humans stomp.

Kibitoshin vs SSJ2 Gohan(25th Budokai)

Due to comments by Old Kai, we can safely infer that he's weaker than SS2 Goku and Vegeta. My Potara formula results in him scaling to be in between Dabra and SS2 Gohan, i.e. slightly weaker than SS2 Gohan; a massive upgrade over regular ol' East Kaioshin, but still completely useless.

Due to his seemingly improbable durability and his psychic powers (paralyzation, materialization, teleportation, etc.) Kaioshin is actually quite a good fighter at equal power levels. Even with Gohan's slight (5-10%) power advantage, Kaioshin should be able to take it. If he's smart (a big if), he should just be able to stop his enemy's heart with telekinesis like Chiaotzu could. If he could make someone several times stronger than him completely helpless for several seconds with just a flick of his wrist, he should be able to do much worse against someone who is roughly his equal.

[rereboy]

Tenshinan, Krillin, Yamcha, & Chiaotzu Vs. Jeice, Burter, Recoome, & Guldo

Equal power levels.

If all of them have equal power levels, then Guldo's team wins easily. Guldo's special abilities are completely over-powered. In the manga, that is balanced with the fact that he isn't very powerful compared with the others, but if all his opponents have the same power level that he has, then they are fucked.

[TheGmGoken]

Tenshinan, Krillin, Yamcha, & Chiaotzu Vs. Jeice, Burter, Recoome, & Guldo

Equal power levels.

If all of them have equal power levels, then Guldo's team wins easily. Guldo's special abilities are completely over-powered. In the manga, that is balanced with the fact that he isn't very powerful compared with the others, but if all his opponents have the same power level that he has, then they are fucked.

Hell Guldo if introduced later and stronger would be a great villain. If Guldo is not balanced out by power then he would be one dangerous. S.O.B.

[Kid Buu]

Okay fine, let's say it goes like this:

Tenshinan - 60,000
Krillin - 60,000
Yamcha - 60,000
Chiaotzu - 15,000
Vs.
Jeice - 60,0000
Burter - 60,000
Recoome - 60,000
Guldo - 10,000

[Saiga]

Guldo can bind multiple people at once, and stronger than him. It depends on if the higher humans are out of his range or not, but he potentially soloes this. Assuming the non-Chaozu's are too much for him to bind, he can still take out Chaozu with his powers and then support the Ginyu team with his time stopping for the win.

If this was just Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Kuririn vs Butta, Jheese and Recoome is becomes harder to say. All three Ginyus have special properties to them like Recoome's toughness and Butta's speed, and to be honest, I would think that they have more battle experience than the humans do. So I think they'd win this as well.

[Kakashi]

Janemba vs Evil Boo

[Blade]

Janemba vs Evil Boo

By Evil Buu, do you mean Grey Buu? If that's the case: Janemba. Janemba makes light work of the combined power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku, Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta and Pikkhan, whereas Grey Buu has only a percentage of Fat Buu's power, who Goku was able to smack around without too many problems.

As a Super Saiyan 3 Goku was at least able to give Fat Buu a run for his money, and if we believe his later statements, he could probably have beaten him. If we think of Fat Buu's power as 100%, and Grey Buu to have received 60 or 70% of that power during the split, Goku's advantage as a Super Saiyan 3 would be widened further still.

In summary, as Grey Buu is someone who Super Saiyan 3 Goku should be able to beat fairly easily, and Janemba who is much stronger than Goku in that state, would win easily.

[RandomGuy96]

Both Buus who that statement could be referring to, Grey and Super, can beat Janemba.

[MDSTSSJ]

Janemba vs Evil Boo

Super Janemba vs Super Boo?

I have them equals so it could go either way! The powered up Super Janemba ( in front of SSJ Gogeta ) is on par with Super Boo.

Super Janemba not use all his power against Super Saiya-jin 3 Kakarotto. Goku gave powerful good hits on Super Janemba and showed some pain but no bruises or scratches on him.