In defense of the Faulconer score

[Roland_ELoG]

It's not a dub, it's a localization. Happens to video games all the time, I don't see what the big deal is.

Besides, if you're going to do a perfectly accurate translation, then just make subtitles. I think Dragon Ball Z is the only anime I watch in English, since there's usually no point. I still watch it in Japanese though, to learn the "real story."

[penguintruth]

Most video games aren't 291 episode spanning ongoing spanning stories where you need to know specific plot details from dialogue which are obscured by a bunch of garbage the localization team just pulled out of their ass because it made them smile, large swaths of completely invented dialogue and scenes rewritten to have entirely different meanings.

A good English dub reflects the Japanese original, if not 1:1, which is impossible, then certainly very accurately. For some reason call for heads to roll if a dub studio produces an inaccurate dub of another anime show, but DBZ's gets a pass because of stupid nostalgia. If they tried to do to another show today what they did to DBZ, Funimation employees would be in witness protection.

[Roland_ELoG]

I don't think I was ever once confused by FUNimation's localization. It may have played fast and loose with plot, characters, motivations, plot, names, genders, plot and so forth, but wa-hey. It worked.

They wouldn't do that now, nobody would localize a show like that NOW, but the 90s were a crazy time for all of us.

[cRookie_Monster]

Thanos isn't talking about opinions, he's talking about facts. The aforementioned replacement score has nothing to do with Dragon Ball Z. An individual might like said replacement score, but that is entirely irrelevant to what just so happens to be Dragon Ball Z.

It's not a big deal folks, you don't like Dragon Ball Z. Accept it and stop fooling yourselves into thinking you need approval to like FUNimation's dub by declaring it to be what it is not.

I spent a year and a half of my life matching music to the original DBZ animations + a localized version of the script. If you took one of the shows' scores and lined it up against an episode of My Little Pony, that would "having nothing to do with" My Little Pony. I'll predict that maybe one person's opinion is that the result is no different, but I would bet that vast majority of people wouldn't see it that way, even of people who don't care for the score.

Our score clearly isn't the score for the Japanese version of the show. I mentioned in another thread how I could probably barely stand to watch that mismatched combo myself.

[JulieYBM]

I spent a year and a half of my life matching music to the original DBZ animations + a localized version of the script. If you took one of the shows' scores and lined it up against an episode of My Little Pony, that would "having nothing to do with" My Little Pony. I'll predict that maybe one person's opinion is that the result is no different, but I would bet that vast majority of people wouldn't see it that way, even of people who don't care for the score.

Our score clearly isn't the score for the Japanese version of the show. I mentioned in another thread how I could probably barely stand to watch that mismatched combo myself.

People's opinions do not decide the color of the sky. Dragon Ball Z exists long before and separate from the FUNimation production a number of individuals enjoy. I have no desire to imply personal insult toward you. As an individual you continue to conduct yourself as a fine member of this community.

[Roland_ELoG]

Da Rules state that we should all be nice and accepting (I'm paraphrasing a bit).

So let's do that. Facts are facts, and opinions are opinions.

[cRookie_Monster]

I spent a year and a half of my life matching music to the original DBZ animations + a localized version of the script. If you took one of the shows' scores and lined it up against an episode of My Little Pony, that would "having nothing to do with" My Little Pony. I'll predict that maybe one person's opinion is that the result is no different, but I would bet that vast majority of people wouldn't see it that way, even of people who don't care for the score.

Our score clearly isn't the score for the Japanese version of the show. I mentioned in another thread how I could probably barely stand to watch that mismatched combo myself.

People's opinions do not decide the color of the sky. Dragon Ball Z exists long before and separate from the FUNimation production a number of individuals enjoy. I have no desire to imply personal insult toward you. As an individual you continue to conduct yourself as a fine member of this community.

Thanks for that. I really have to bite my tongue sometimes. Sometimes I don't bite it enough.

I'm not insulted, just noticing a trend lately of people saying it's not DBZ and this particular take on the idea was getting a bit extreme for me. I think most people on here get that opinions are opinions, a few others, not so much

fyi, the "one person" I was referring to isn't you.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

What one person considers "the show" might not be "the show" to someone else. These "But, it just isn't" retorts are pathetic and those posting them would benefit from rereading them once or twice before clicking "submit".

[TheMightyOzaru]

I would like to know how the replacement score not capturing the original mood of the show is an opinion . That's a fact. Lets take a look at the SSJ3 transformation scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzVKag6sR9w SSJ3 Transformation Scene(English)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F93l-nMXZf8 SSJ3 Transformation Scene(Japanese)
Both scenes present entirely different styles of music which convey 2 completely different moods. It's honestly not entirely false to claim the Funimation dub is a butchered mess with DBZ slapped on for it's title. I like the sound of Faulconer's tracks, but it doesn't fit the show, no matter much you want it to.

[Bullza]

Going by that example you showed

The Japanese music sounded like music from early 80's anime in a show that was airing in the mid 90's making the show seem older than it is.Slow, dreary music that sounded all too much the same as the majority of the Japanese soundtrack making the scene forgettable which is not what should be happening when seeing a new form for the first time.

The Faulcounder music on the other hand sounds much more modern making the show seem newer than it is. It makes the scene that much more exciting and builds up the intensity and hypes you up for the fight that is to come as you want to see what' he's about to pull off.

Short version

Japanese music - Outdated, Dull, Same old repetitive score heard throughout DB and DBZ.

Faulconer music - Modern, exciting and memorable.

So that was a terrible example.

[Roland_ELoG]

Forget about the relative quality of the scores. That's all opinion.

What we can analyze is the tone. The Funimation score has shades of "awesome ultimate new power!" The Japanese score seems (to my ears), more indicative of "this is a bad idea, Goku!"

So the scene in Japanese is supposed to read as, Goku is squandering his time left on Earth in a desperate bid for time. The Funimation score doesn't match that. BUT it DOES match the Funimation dub, which interprets the scene as "check out this new transformation." The tone is supposed to be triumphant, and the score backs that up.

[kei17]

The Japanese score seems (to my ears), more indicative of "this is a bad idea, Goku!"

It's more like "what the hell is going to happen?!" or "look at his formidable and deadly power!" to me. Though I like Faulconer's SSJ3 theme itself as music, it doesn't fit the scene because they tried to make it sound too "cool" and it lacks a feeling of tension.

[Ringworm128]

Yes slow and dreary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG8YdwCVZSc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVBeTMCKJ5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYw9NaxE9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyRymiKOJu4
And when the music is "slow and dreary" it's to build tension or emotion instead of "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH THIS IS AN ACTION SHOW!!!!!!!!!!"
As for the whole "outdated" thing I call BS, the OST sounds older than it is but it's still a well composed score that fits the spirit of the show. And let's not forget the fact DB started in the 80's and by the time Z started Kikuchi's music would have been something people associated with DB. Why do you think they're hiring John Williams for Star Wars 7 when they could have easily gotten DeadMau5 or someone to do the score?


The Faulconer score had more than a few great tracks but about 50 tons of filler music, and that's honestly why I think the Toonami faithfuls go on about it. They remember Hells Bells and Ginyu Transformation but they forget about Generic Synth Tracks #86, #9, and #11 and as a result they never shut up about it.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Japanese music - Outdated, Dull, Same old repetitive score heard throughout DB and DBZ.

"Outdated" is not an argument against something. It can be only an opinion of the people for which the world was created in the late 90's. Instead of telling us that the soundtrack is dull(?), you can just say that you don't like classic orchestral scores based on Chinese/Japanese traditional music. Something around 420 music pieces were composed for the Dragon Ball TV series and movies, ~430 for Dragon Ball Z TV series and movies. It's far from repetitive.

Faulconer music - Modern, exciting and memorable.

"Modern" is not an argument. Exciting... Despite the compositions and arrangements, synths will never be more exciting to me than the real orchestra playing on a big variety of amazingly sounding instruments recorded in the studio like this: http://www.avacostudio.com

To be honest, I don't understand it at all. How a modern American electronic Sci-Fi music can be more fitting to the old Japanese story based on the Chinese and Japanese culture and legends than the old Japanese music based on the Chinese and Japanese traditional music? Believe me - if you would be introduced to the show with the original score, Dragon Ball would be considered by you as way more epic and unique among the other shows. Stripping it from its original music was a crime against culture.

"In defense of the Faulconer score" - if the topic would be called "In defense of the FUNimation's decision", I would have much more to say

[90sDBZ]

When people say Kikuchi is repetitive I think it's more to do with a lot of the pieces sounding like variations of the same thing than them meaning there's a limited number of tracks. Like everything sounds a little too similar. The Faulconer score has a different and distinct feel depending on the saga while Kikuchi pretty much feels the same throughout Z despite introducing new pieces. In DB I didn't think Kikuchi was repetitive at all. I'd say the Kikuchi score reached its peak at the King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr sagas. It was incredible for that part of the story and had actually evolved from early DB to sound really dark and dramatic. But in the Saiyan saga the new pieces introduced were boring and similar sounding more often than not. Maybe fans of the original just accepted it and weren't bothered by it because they'd been listening to Kikuchi for so long and it still had the same familiar sound and feel to it that they associated with Dragonball that they felt no need to question the quality.

And by the time of the Z era the show had largely moved on from Chinese and Japanese culture and legends. It was actually borrowing plot elements from US cinema like how the Android saga was a blatant ripoff of the American made Terminator movies. Z had Alien Invasions, Space Travel, Time Travel and Cyborgs. Is any of that still based on Chinese or Japanese culture or Legends? By GT even Toei felt that the show had moved on from that and used a different composer.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Short version

Japanese music - Outdated, Dull, Same old repetitive score heard throughout DB and DBZ.

Faulconer music - Modern, exciting and memorable.

So that was a terrible example.

This isn't about liking the sound of certain songs, this is about the mood. I honestly don't see what's so damn hard to understand about that. Let's say, for example, that Nintendo of America decided to do a replacement score for the Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword. Now lets say that this replacement score would be composed of generic rock pieces that never stop, and don't fit the mood of the game. Now lets say I'm a fan of rock, which I am, could I claim that the music is a better fit for the game just because I like the sound of the music more? Hell. Fucking. No. I may prefer the sound of rock, but that doesn't mean it fits the game in the slightest. This same example can be applied to DBZ. The blaring synth rock used to convey an entirely different sound, and more importantly mood, does not fit the show's intended mood. Any argument stating otherwise is misguided and foolish. Furthermore, you want to bring repetitive into this? Ok, the Faulconer score is filled to the brim with recycled tracks THAT NEVER STOP! Exciting is also entirely subjective. There were plenty of times I found myself excited when Kikuchi music was playing. Memorable? Sure some tracks are, but as a whole, not so much. A lot of you fans forget random track #22, 36, and 79. The Faulconer score has it's fair share of forgettable garbage. Your lack of respect and understanding for the show's original music is just insulting. The rest of the world enjoys Kikuchi so I don't see why the average American has to have his HARDCORE DEEEEBEEEEZEEEEEEEE! .

[Kojiro Sasaki]

But in the Saiyan saga the new pieces introduced were boring and similar sounding more often than not. Maybe fans of the original just accepted it and weren't bothered by it because they'd been listening to Kikuchi for so long and it still had the same familiar sound and feel to it that they associated with Dragonball that they felt no need to question the quality.

Totally different music pieces were produced for Dragon Ball Z. M700 series composed for the TV show (~50 pieces) and the one of the greatest recording sessions in DBZ period - M800 series from the first Dragon Ball Z theatrical movie (~20 pieces) were used in the Saiyan Saga. Sounding of this new music is very different from the previous soundtrack.

And by the time of the Z era the show had largely moved on from Chinese and Japanese culture and legends. It was actually borrowing plot elements from US cinema like how the Android saga was a blatant ripoff of the American made Terminator movies. Z had Alien Invasions, Space Travel, Time Travel and Cyborgs. Is any of that still based on Chinese or Japanese culture or Legends?

It was still Japanese. FUNimation's version deleted most of this atmosphere. I do not consider each story about Artificial Humans as a rip off of the Terminator. Original Dragon Ball Z story has only small references to the west.
"Alien Invasions, Space Travel, Time Travel and Cyborgs" - America is not the owner of these.

So yes - the show was still Japanese at that time.

One phenomenal thing about Kikuchi is that he was able to compose perfect score for the Dragon Ball and that he changed the way of composing exactly as the show changed since the beginning of Z.

[Bullza]

Yes slow and dreary.

And when the music is "slow and dreary" it's to build tension or emotion instead of "GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH THIS IS AN ACTION SHOW!!!!!!!!!!"
As for the whole "outdated" thing I call BS, the OST sounds older than it is but it's still a well composed score that fits the spirit of the show. And let's not forget the fact DB started in the 80's and by the time Z started Kikuchi's music would have been something people associated with DB. Why do you think they're hiring John Williams for Star Wars 7 when they could have easily gotten DeadMau5 or someone to do the score?


The Faulconer score had more than a few great tracks but about 50 tons of filler music, and that's honestly why I think the Toonami faithfuls go on about it. They remember Hells Bells and Ginyu Transformation but they forget about Generic Synth Tracks #86, #9, and #11 and as a result they never shut up about it.

I just listened to all those tracks and they weren't that slow (compared to most of the Japanese soundtrack) but damn they really do all sound mostly alike. There was hardly any variety in those tracks at all.

There's no tension there when it all sounds the same throughout. The Faulconer score actually had variety in it. The scene where Gohan is having his Kamehameha clash with Cell really builds tension with the Faulconer soundtrack because of the Dragon theme and then ending with the Super Saiyan Vegeta theme. There is absolutely no tnesion in that scene in Japanese because again it sounds the same as those tracks you posted.

The music is outdated, you'd never heard music like that in things like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece etc nowadays. It was a similar style of music you'd have heard when the original Dragon Ball came out, just because people would have expected to hear the same in DBZ doesn't mean it wasn't outdated by DBZ.

John Williams is doing the score for Star wars VII but the original Star Wars soundtrack isn't outdated to begin with so it's not the same.

[Bullza]

Japanese music - Outdated, Dull, Same old repetitive score heard throughout DB and DBZ.

"Outdated" is not an argument against something. It can be only an opinion of the people for which the world was created in the late 90's. Instead of telling us that the soundtrack is dull(?), you can just say that you don't like classic orchestral scores based on Chinese/Japanese traditional music. Something around 420 music pieces were composed for the Dragon Ball TV series and movies, ~430 for Dragon Ball Z TV series and movies. It's far from repetitive.

Faulconer music - Modern, exciting and memorable.

With 430 pieces of music there would be variety but all the types of music do sound the same. The guy above listed 4 examples of quicker "tense" music and they all sounded the same as did the one I just heard on the Gohan/cell video. The scores for battle music may sound different to the scores for the more comedic momnets but most of those battle scores sound alike and most of the comedic scores sound alike. They use the same instruments for the vast majority of the soundtrack so will be repetitve sounding.

Being outdated is never a good thing. You wouldn't want to watch Iron Man 3 with 70's music would you.

To be honest, I don't understand it at all. How a modern American electronic Sci-Fi music can be more fitting to the old Japanese story based on the Chinese and Japanese culture and legends than the old Japanese music based on the Chinese and Japanese traditional music? Believe me - if you would be introduced to the show with the original score, Dragon Ball would be considered by you as way more epic and unique among the other shows. Stripping it from its original music was a crime against culture.

Dragon Ball was a adventure fantasy show, that Chinese and Japanese traditional score fit there. DBZ is an action sci fi show, old fashioned traditional music does not fit there. This show more than any tries to build up tension and hype for fights that are about to come and the Japanese score is not able to do that. The Faulconer score.

If I'd have seen DBZ first with the Japanese soundtrack I'd have still loved the show but nowhere near as much as what I do now. Having watched DB first I heard the Japanese score first, there was only one score I can think of right now that I liked and I always thought the show seemed kinda outdated because of the music. Most of my favourite scenes in DBZ which I go look up on youtube now and then are mainly because of the Faulconer score that went with it.

[Bullza]

Short version

Japanese music - Outdated, Dull, Same old repetitive score heard throughout DB and DBZ.

Faulconer music - Modern, exciting and memorable.

So that was a terrible example.

This isn't about liking the sound of certain songs, this is about the mood. I honestly don't see what's so damn hard to understand about that. Let's say, for example, that Nintendo of America decided to do a replacement score for the Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword. Now lets say that this replacement score would be composed of generic rock pieces that never stop, and don't fit the mood of the game. Now lets say I'm a fan of rock, which I am, could I claim that the music is a better fit for the game just because I like the sound of the music more? Hell. Fucking. No. I may prefer the sound of rock, but that doesn't mean it fits the game in the slightest. This same example can be applied to DBZ. The blaring synth rock used to convey an entirely different sound, and more importantly mood, does not fit the show's intended mood. Any argument stating otherwise is misguided and foolish. Furthermore, you want to bring repetitive into this? Ok, the Faulconer score is filled to the brim with recycled tracks THAT NEVER STOP! Exciting is also entirely subjective. There were plenty of times I found myself excited when Kikuchi music was playing. Memorable? Sure some tracks are, but as a whole, not so much. A lot of you fans forget random track #22, 36, and 79. The Faulconer score has it's fair share of forgettable garbage. Your lack of respect and understanding for the show's original music is just insulting. The rest of the world enjoys Kikuchi so I don't see why the average American has to have his HARDCORE DEEEEBEEEEZEEEEEEEE! .

Even when you say it's about the mood the Japanese score still pales there. None of it built any tension when DBZ was full of it. When most of the tracks sound the same it's hard to get the mood for the moment. The scores for games like Mario and Zelda they actually DO fit the mood of the game so it's not a problem. The scores for those games aren't outdated or repetitive, it's not the same.

There's some crap in Faulconers score but there's way more good than bad, it's score has variety and memorable tracks. The Japanese score has very few scores that stand out as good because you can hardly separate them from one another.

You say the rest of the world enjoys Kikuchi but it hasn't stopped the fact that in America they felt the need to replace the music. DBZ Kai also felt the need to replace the music. Battle of Gods also felt the need to go with a more modern and different kind of music.