DBGT's existence

[doomydoomydoom]

But DAN DAN has nothing to do with the story of GT. If GT didn't exist, Toei could easily have put that song in another anime.

Maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't have. (Yes I know it was a hit, peaked at #4 on the charts.) But it's pretty useless to speculate on whether Toei would have used it in another anime in some alternate universe where there was no GT. It WAS used in GT, here in the only universe there is, though if anybody hears of another one please drop me a line, so therefore that's what we associate it with, and that's why people outside of Japan have even heard of it, which is good enough for me. I don't like to overthink things.

Listen to the ZARD version too. Its great.

Yes, the ZARD version is very good, and of course we must give credit where credit is due, the lead singer of ZARD wrote it---the lyrics at least. Very sad what happened to Izumi Sakai.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't get the mindset of "I don't like this, thus I wish it didn't exist!"

That's like me saying "Boo Arc shouldn't exist, since Dragon Ball would be much better without it". If anything, I don't deny a series existence, but rather, wish it was better. Now, regarding to GT, I vastly prefer it over Dragon Ball Z, and equal to Dragon Ball. However, it does contain bad execution that needs to be fix here and there.

The difference between the Buu arc and GT is that Buu was necessary. It expanded on Gohan's character. GT didn't really do anything. Sure, one could argue it expanded on Pan's character, but was that necessary at all? Gohan was around since the beginning of Z, not 2 episodes of it like Pan was so what was necessary about GT? Nothing, in fact it made Z's ending entirely pointless by making Uub useless. GT certainly added cool things, and even had good ideas. The problem was it was lazily carried out and as a result we are left with a lukewarm series that doesn't really need to exist as far as I'm concerned. I like SSJ4, but I have no problem with SSJ3 being as far as it goes, SSJ God aside.

[Marco Polo]

Maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't have. (Yes I know it was a hit, peaked at #4 on the charts.) But it's pretty useless to speculate on whether Toei would have used it in another anime in some alternate universe where there was no GT. It WAS used in GT, here in the only universe there is, though if anybody hears of another one please drop me a line, so therefore that's what we associate it with, and that's why people outside of Japan have even heard of it, which is good enough for me. I don't like to overthink things.

This whole topic is about DBGT's existence and whether people would prefer it not to exist. Thinking about what might have happened if GT didn't exist is perfectly in line with the topic.

[doomydoomydoom]

Well...I could nitpick that sentiment to its grave, but I won't. I do believe that any speculation---no, not about GT and its effect on the franchise and any future stories set in the Dragon Ball universe, but about whether or not a song's popularity outside of its country depended on GT's existence---isn't the best use of someone's time. That's just, well, as I said it's thinking far too much about things.

[Hellspawn28]

GT was just another cash cow. DB was still big in Japan during the 90's and they knew that they would still make money if they made more shows. GT was not very good, so most people skip out on it which is one of the reasons why it did poorly in ratings. SSj4 Goku to me felt a reason to boost up ratings and toy sales.

[Shineman]

The difference between the Buu arc and GT is that Buu was necessary. It expanded on Gohan's character. GT didn't really do anything. Sure, one could argue it expanded on Pan's character, but was that necessary at all? Gohan was around since the beginning of Z, not 2 episodes of it like Pan was so what was necessary about GT? Nothing, in fact it made Z's ending entirely pointless by making Uub useless. GT certainly added cool things, and even had good ideas. The problem was it was lazily carried out and as a result we are left with a lukewarm series that doesn't really need to exist as far as I'm concerned. I like SSJ4, but I have no problem with SSJ3 being as far as it goes, SSJ God aside.

I've to disagree on GT's character development process within the series; however, I can agree that it certainly wasn't on the level Dragon Ball had. I don't think the term "necessary" shouldn't be used for why certain things exist, since it basically boils down to "expanding the world of Dragon Ball" (and Zennies). [Also, didn't Goku just took Oob with him because he wanted a training partner..?]

I can agree on that GT's problem isn't the story itself, but rather how it was shown throughout the series. The execution wasn't the best, and should be improved on. Despite that, determining whether or not something is "necessary: to the series, brings a whole can of worms of other things that be considered "Was this bit necessary? Was Battle of Gods necessary? List will go on..! "

[TheMightyOzaru]

What would be lost if GT never existed though? None of what would be lost would really take away from Dragon Ball's story. If Buu would be taken out of the picture, we would lose some crucial development for Gohan and Vegeta. So in that sense Buu is necessary. Battle of Gods really wasn't necessary either, but I like it so I'd prefer it stick around. If you like GT and you want it to stick around, despite it not being necessary, you can do that. I've no problem with that.

[Hellspawn28]

GT hardly had any character development compare to DB and DBZ. Every character was flat and forgettable. Bebi was the only villain that had any type of development.

[TheMightyOzaru]

GT hardly had any character development compare to DB and DBZ. Every character was flat and forgettable. Bebi was the only villain that had any type of development.

I liked Ledric, Bebi, Si Xing Long, San Xing Long and Yi Xing Long. The villain material isn't awful.

[SuperSaiyan2]

I am happy that GT exists. I may watch z for accuracy purposes, and to analyze it, but I don't do this with GT. I realize it has many flaws, but I just sit down and watch it for fun. Over analyzing it makes it seem worse than it already is, and if we can just enjoy it a little bit more it isn't so bad.

[TheMightyOzaru]

GT makes sense to me since I actually found a way to power scale the damn series, but my problems are with it's good ideas not being used correctly.

[TheGmGoken]

I always disliked Gt even before I cared for plot of stories. Just something didn't feel like Db until the last episode

[Shineman]

What would be lost if GT never existed though? None of what would be lost would really take away from Dragon Ball's story. If Buu would be taken out of the picture, we would lose some crucial development for Gohan and Vegeta. So in that sense Buu is necessary. Battle of Gods really wasn't necessary either, but I like it so I'd prefer it stick around. If you like GT and you want it to stick around, despite it not being necessary, you can do that. I've no problem with that.

Well, to avoid me derailing the topic, I suppose that we would never expand on why Elder Kaioshin (That's the correct term for him, right?) was go against about Goku and Co. using the dragon balls so much. The villains were pretty interesting, such as Ledric (Errm, I guess he's more of a "wants a strong opponent type of guy" rather than a villain) and Bebi. There's also further development of classic characters (Vegeta mentioning fusion?); although I do agree it wasn't the extend that of Dragon Ball previously had. However, I do understand what you are saying though. We'll just agree to disagree.

My only complaint about GT is the lack of Ssj Pan, despite teasing it in GT Perfect Files (Dragon Ball Heroes is really twisting it gears of having no Ssj Pan yet )

[Hellspawn28]

GT hardly had any character development compare to DB and DBZ. Every character was flat and forgettable. Bebi was the only villain that had any type of development.

I liked Ledric, Bebi, Si Xing Long, San Xing Long and Yi Xing Long. The villain material isn't awful.

Yeah they didn't really do much and had much backstory to begin with. Super 17 was a powerful version of a character that we already seeen and Yi Xing Long came out of nowhere with no build up at all. He was generic villain at best.

[Marco Polo]

What would be lost if GT never existed though? None of what would be lost would really take away from Dragon Ball's story. If Buu would be taken out of the picture, we would lose some crucial development for Gohan and Vegeta. So in that sense Buu is necessary. Battle of Gods really wasn't necessary either, but I like it so I'd prefer it stick around. If you like GT and you want it to stick around, despite it not being necessary, you can do that. I've no problem with that.

Not really. Gohan and Vegeta did have some pretty good development in the Buu Arc, but it wasn't necessary. If Gohan's story had ended with the Cell Arc, it would still have been a complete story with full closure, with Gohan accessing his potential and rage. The Buu Arc actually backtracked on that by coming up with the idea that Gohan slacked after the Cell Arc. Similarly, Vegeta's story ending with the Cell Arc, with him accepting Trunks as his future son and Goku staying dead, would have been a complete story with full closure.

[Blade]

What would be lost if GT never existed though? None of what would be lost would really take away from Dragon Ball's story. If Buu would be taken out of the picture, we would lose some crucial development for Gohan and Vegeta. So in that sense Buu is necessary. Battle of Gods really wasn't necessary either, but I like it so I'd prefer it stick around. If you like GT and you want it to stick around, despite it not being necessary, you can do that. I've no problem with that.

Not really. Gohan and Vegeta did have some pretty good development in the Buu Arc, but it wasn't necessary. If Gohan's story had ended with the Cell Arc, it would still have been a complete story with full closure, with Gohan accessing his potential and rage. The Buu Arc actually backtracked on that by coming up with the idea that Gohan slacked after the Cell Arc. Similarly, Vegeta's story ending with the Cell Arc, with him accepting Trunks as his future son and Goku staying dead, would have been a complete story with full closure.

I've gotta disagree with the last bit - I think the Cell arc doesn't really provide Vegeta any closure what-so-ever. He failed once again to surpass Goku and even saw Goku's son go one better, furthermore, with Goku dead and choosing to train in the afterlife he was forced to accept that his rivalry with Goku would be forever unrequited. Really, from Vegeta's point of view at least, the Cell arc couldn't have ended a great deal worse. He was left ashamed to fester in the tatters of his pride, knowing that with Goku gone he would never have chance to redeem himself - which is why the Buu arc is so important. The Majin Vegeta fight and Vegeta's subsequent atonement are the resolution to his open-ended situation after Cell's defeat.

[PhoenixEX]

I'm one of those rare few that actually enjoyed GT. The only arc I didn't like was that search for the black star balls arc (I forgot what it was actually called, the lost episodes?); everything from baby on I enjoyed.

[Marco Polo]

I've gotta disagree with the last bit - I think the Cell arc doesn't really provide Vegeta any closure what-so-ever. He failed once again to surpass Goku and even saw Goku's son go one better, furthermore, with Goku dead and choosing to train in the afterlife he was forced to accept that his rivalry with Goku would be forever unrequited. Really, from Vegeta's point of view at least, the Cell arc couldn't have ended a great deal worse. He was left ashamed to fester in the tatters of his pride, knowing that with Goku gone he would never have chance to redeem himself - which is why the Buu arc is so important. The Majin Vegeta fight and Vegeta's subsequent atonement are the resolution to his open-ended situation after Cell's defeat.

He did help Gohan defeat Cell at a decisive moment though, and actually apologized for his arrogance. Vegeta learned a bit of humility there.

I agree that the Majin Vegeta development was a fantastic addition to his story though.

[Saiga]

I would actually wish for it to exist, not because it has any redeeming qualities to justify it sticking around, but because it doesn't. The sheer terribleness of it and it's ideas has helped me understand more about what it is I like about the series. Also it serves as a good lesson for what not to do, for those who want to write their own sequels.