Mugen: Balthazar's Work (fangaming)

[Ajay]

Seemed like it.

Well, that wasn't my intention. The phrase missing from 'it's not exactly appealing to anyone in the fan base nor does it match the character' would be in 'in particular'. As in, it doesn't directly lean towards either side of the fanbase, so who exactly is it for?

They're creating something they enjoy, for free, the way they want it. They have full creative freedom and are using it as much as they want and can.

Sure, I get that but that doesn't change how I feel on the matter. It's still feedback towards their project and something for them to consider. If they don't agree then that's fine but at least someone has something to say about it.

This is all you should have said.

No, it's not all I should have said. I have every right to give feedback towards every decision in this project, that would be the whole point in releasing this bit by bit and looking for feedback on their decisions. I understand I have a choice but why can't I argue against what they use as a representation of their product? I feel it lets down the authenticity that's been established so far in their fantastic sprites and backgrounds.

You're getting incredibly defensive over some harmless feedback.

[DNA]

No, you're getting really defensive and trying to swallow your own words. All you should have done is give your feedback, which you didn't. You clearly stated that no one would want this. There was no margin of doubt in there. That was no feedback, that was you strongly implying that they made a wrong move.

All you should have said is something along the lines of "Gee, I don't know about this, I mean, this voice acting sounds a bit off in Freeza, just my two cents. I would rather have something closer to either the Japanese or English cast."
Simple and polite.

Also, you are talking about authenticity when the style they are using for sprites is taken from French cartoons. Meaning, the style is completely different from anything we have ever seen done with the franchise. How is that keeping the authenticity of it?

[Ajay]

No, you're getting really defensive and trying to swallow your own words. All you should have done is give your feedback, which you didn't. You clearly stated that no one would want this. There was no margin of doubt in there. That was no feedback, that was you strongly implying that they made a wrong move.

All you should have said is something along the lines of "Gee, I don't know about this, I mean, this voice acting sounds a bit off in Freeza, just my two cents. I would rather have something closer to either the Japanese or English cast."
Simple and polite.

Also, you are talking about authenticity when the style they are using for sprites is taken from French cartoons. Meaning, the style is completely different from anything we have ever seen done with the franchise. How is that keeping the authenticity of it?

So this boils down to you calling me out on some poor phrasing. In no way am I trying to 'swallow my words', I'm attempting to explain to you exactly what I meant but for whatever asinine reason, you refuse to accept that.

I've left my feedback, it's abundantly clear from my previous post how I feel and if you don't agree with my comments then whatever, you're not making this, who cares? As long as Iced and Balthazar understand my points then that's fine.

My first post may have been a kneejerk response but everything following it explained clearly why. There's nothing else to say now so let's just leave it at that.

[Iced]

Well, that wasn't my intention. The phrase missing from 'it's not exactly appealing to anyone in the fan base nor does it match the character' would be in 'in particular'. As in, it doesn't directly lean towards either side of the fanbase, so who exactly is it for?

Thats incredibly dismissive.


Its for me, its for us, its for everyone that has enjoyed it so far. I disagree that "no side of the fanbase wants it" I wanted it, so did others.
What fanbase would we be aiming for ? its for everyone, and if i was able to I would get even more original actors. It allows me to have renditions of the characters that aren't stuck to whatever they said in games. Like having freeza complaining of breaking a nail or having Piccolo introduce himself as the thing that horror stories are made of.

The characters have intros where they ride shenron into battle, vegeta rides his sayan capsule into battle even tho he is a rendition of his buu era costume, goku and kaio ride around in his car. Everything is custom, and made towards the idea of a fullgame that would stand by itself instead of the recycled stuff that most often ends up happening.

If you had tried the characters however you would have found out that we have always included options to let whoever uses them change voices into japanese or the english videogame counterpart, ofcourse those dont have any of the custom stuff that accompanies the special winposes, because you cant expect us to track down official actors to re record dialogue..

[Dalesy]

There was no margin of doubt in there.

Maybe you should take another look at that, bud.

I just feel with that voice, it's not exactly appealing to anyone in the fan base nor does it match the character. Dub fans will complain it's not Chris Ayres or Linda Young and JPN fans will be upset it's not Nakao.

DNA, I have no idea why you're taking this to heart. Feedback is just feedback. If you disagree, state so. There's no reason to go into defense mode over someone's honest opinion.

And yes, I would prefer either original sounds from the show, or copycat voice actors. I don't see why you would want to replace them.

[DNA]

Maybe you should take another look at that, bud.

I just feel with that voice, it's not exactly appealing to anyone in the fan base nor does it match the character. Dub fans will complain it's not Chris Ayres or Linda Young and JPN fans will be upset it's not Nakao.

And then he states that it's not exactly appealing to anyone in the fan base. He didn't say that he felt that it might not be, he flat out said that it isn't. He also said that both fans of the original and the English version will complain, further implying that there is no other option besides those two. You do know that there are many other fan bases that enjoy other voice actors right? From, you know, other countries?

[Dalesy]

Maybe you should take another look at that, bud.

I just feel with that voice, it's not exactly appealing to anyone in the fan base nor does it match the character. Dub fans will complain it's not Chris Ayres or Linda Young and JPN fans will be upset it's not Nakao.

And then he states that it's not exactly appealing to anyone in the fan base. He didn't say that he felt that it might not be, he flat out said that it isn't.

You are reading that so selectively. "Not exactly" spells out that that statement is not meant to say "No one will ever enjoy this replacement."

He also said that both fans of the original and the English version will complain, further implying that there is no other option besides those two. You do know that there are many other fan bases that enjoy other voice actors right? From, you know, other countries?

The game is in English. Why would anyone expect to see, for instance, the Korean voice of Goku in a game that is entirely in English? The three major versions that are consumed in English speaking countries are the Ocean/Westwood Dub, the Funi dub, and the Japanese version. The only way to truly appeal to a universal audience would be to have the original Japanese voices, because that's the version that gets consumed worldwide.

[Quebaz]

snip

Damn, I don't know who gives Balthazar the ideas (I'm assuming it's either you or Balthazar just gets awesome inspiration), but man, them references, talk about fanservice.

Also you all guys need to stop this costum voice talk, since the release of Vegeta you were always able to choose between his costum voice and the ofcial ones, if any complaints are to be made, is that the oficial ones include limited clips (since from what I noticed, they are taken from Budokai 3 and B3 only), a quick fix would just rip them from various sources, thus having more clips and vareity.

[dario03]

I actually like that voice for Freeza and would like to know who the VA is if possible. It doesn't sound exactly like Freeza but its close and seems to fit him and his English voice changed a couple of times anyways. Plus its not uncommon for games, even official games, and even official DB games to have a different VA even if the show is still on tv. So its not like this game is the first one to have a different VA for a character.

[Iced]

The game is in English. Why would anyone expect to see, for instance, the Korean voice of Goku in a game that is entirely in English? The three major versions that are consumed in English speaking countries are the Ocean/Westwood Dub, the Funi dub, and the Japanese version. The only way to truly appeal to a universal audience would be to have the original Japanese voices, because that's the version that gets consumed worldwide.

We are a multicultural group, none of us is a native english speaker. We picked voice actors based on the elasticity it gives us concerning dialogue, we have no attachment to the english version.

snip

Damn, I don't know who gives Balthazar the ideas (I'm assuming it's either you or Balthazar just gets awesome inspiration), but man, them references, talk about fanservice.

We write it all together, trying to get as much out of every character as possible.

I actually like that voice for Freeza and would like to know who the VA is if possible. It doesn't sound exactly like Freeza but its close and seems to fit him and his English voice changed a couple of times anyways. Plus its not uncommon for games, even official games, and even official DB games to have a different VA even if the show is still on tv. So its not like this game is the first one to have a different VA for a character.

The voice actor for freeza is the very talented shockdingo

the voice actor for vegeta is the very talented Rice pirate

I'm holding auditions for Gohan at a voice acting forum.

[DNA]

No voice acting for Goku?

[Iced]

Goku was made before we started taking in voice actors, if we get to a point where we are able to cast him we will, but we are more focused on the newer characters right now.

[mAcChaos]

I can't believe I never saw this thread before. The graphic work here is amazing. I always loved Mugen.

The only thing I found jarring was the voices. At first it had Sean Schemmel and JP Goku and those fit but then there were voices for Vegeta that I never recognized. It sounds like some other character was just overlaid on top of him. It would be better if the character's voices themselves were used, dub or not. It makes it harder to enjoy the fighting since the voices are different and it is constantly distracting since I keep thinking "oh its not Vegeta."

[DNA]

It would be better if the character's voices themselves were used, dub or not.

I strongly disagree with you there, if it was the original japanese sounds bites it would be boring as fuck since I've been hearing them since the early 90's; if it was the dub I wouldn't even touch any of the characters because I avoid the English voice cast like my life depends on it. It annoys me that much.

It makes it harder to enjoy the fighting since the voices are different and it is constantly distracting since I keep thinking "oh its not Vegeta."

Just how I feel whenever I watch the dub.

It's been said time and time again in the thread. You have a choice, you can just change the voices on the sound file to whatever suits you. Can we all just please stop complaining about it? Seriously, it's like you are against creativity.

[Iced]

Thanks DNA for defending the matter, you seem to be one of the few people who 'get' it.

We used custom voice actors for Vegeta/Freeza because, as said before, it doesn't limit us to what has been recorded for games.
And using other sources, like snippets of the show, is for me, a big no-no, because they won't be as crips or will have music behind it.
We are aiming for something professional and having voice clips with music behind them just screams 'amateuristic' imo.
The dispute about the custom voices has been going on ever since we introduced Vegeta's custom voice.
Personally, I LOVE it. (The custom voice, not the disputes!!) To me, it fits the character of Vegeta MUCH more then Chris Sabat's iteration. If you don't like it just for the reason of 'it's not the same guy who voiced the show' then frankly I think you're being a bit dense, and like DNA said; 'against creativity'. Please try to be more open and accepting.

Another reason is to give these characters more 'their own face'. Along with the gameplay, this is something you will never see officially from Bandai or whoever makes official DBZ games.
These characters are OUR creations, they represent our personal ideas for the characters created by Toriyama, we are expanding on them in our own way.
BECAUSE it's not official, we are able to take slight liberties with the characters as well. Such as Vegeta's winpose where he calls or gets called on his scouter, which doubles as a phone.
It's funny because it's in character, while at the same time, not entirely. We could not do those things when restricted to the official recordings.
And like Iced said, tracking down the official Funi cast to record extra dialoge exclusively for this free game, is not really an option I even have interest in delving into.

Simply said, we chose the custom voice. We really like it and are happy to work with professional voice actors that way, you could even say blessed.
I have never heared much if any complaints about the gameplay we designed for these characters. People have accepted it for it's quality and creativity.
The custom voice, in our opinion, is a big part of the 'face' of these characters in general.
All I'm asking is that you give it a chance, because they really grow on you.

And if you REALLY can't stand it, for some reason, keep in mind we went through the trouble of including BOTH the japanese and Funi english dubs from Budokai 3, and you are free to select one of those.

ps. this is Balthazar, me and Iced share this account. I've been lurking here from the start. I hope you've been enjoying our work so far.

pps. I've always wondered VegettoEX's opinion/thoughts about our characters. I've been trying to shove videos under his nose but I've never gotten a reply from him.
Somebody tie that guy to a chair and make him watch some Z2 videos!

ppps. here's the latest Freeza video, it shows some new moves. Sadly it doesn't have much talking yet, he doesn't have much winposes yet. Just one, actually, and he should in fact talk in that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEc6K_IZ ... 761CO3oV1Q

[DNA]

New Gohan video, from Balthazar's YouTube account. Looking pretty good, loving those intro and win poses! And that West City stage is new! Nice! :D

[DNA]

There's a contribution going on for Gohan outfits.
Gohan's Special Outfit Show

Here are some examples:


There's also one specific for Great Saiyaman, Balthazar is keeping them separate for different winposes:


As a small exercise, I made one myself, no biggie, just a little frankensteining :P


There are more but I haven't been able to get proper sprites for them.

[goku the krump dancer]

New Gohan video, from Balthazar's YouTube account. Looking pretty good, loving those intro and win poses! And that West City stage is new! Nice!

Damn that was awesome. I don't know what I like more the fighting, Kibito putting Gohan in his beginning of Z get up or Gohan's win pose.

[Sshadow5001]

These are amazing Might have to download them.

EDIT


OMG

[DNA]

Just spent the good part of the last 5/6 hours doing these:


They've been posted on the topic and I hope Balthazar will use them. :P