Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

[MarcFBR]

Here's an example of "proper framing".

Actually, I used improper word. I meant that the "green option" is the only way to see everything that was shot on film.

And once you do that you basically are doing exactly what you don't want Funimation to do, which is changing the original framing.

[Corpsecreate]

omg 16:9...

[Im insaneFromEarth]

omg 16:9...

Crap it's cell were dead.

I will still get season one, I just have to see what it lookes like on my tv. If I like it, I will get all of the seasons. If I don't oh well.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Watching this makes me sad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moAy02J2fd8.

They more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

And once you do that you basically are doing exactly what you don't want Funimation to do, which is changing the original framing.

You have a serious problems with basic logic.

[KingofWisdom]

I do look forward to seeing what the reviews say for this set. The orange brick review on the podcast is one of my favorite episodes.

[ect5150]

And once you do that you basically are doing exactly what you don't want Funimation to do, which is changing the original framing.

You have a serious problems with basic logic.

I believe he is referring to the fact that you are selecting what the framing is, just as FUNI is selecting this new framing versus what the director and animators of the show intended for it to be.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

I believe he is referring to the fact that you are selecting what the framing is, just as FUNI is selecting this new framing versus what the director and animators of the show intended for it to be.

I'm expressing my private opinion about what I would like to see. 16 mm film is considered by me as the "original framing". If somebody does not see the difference between heavy ingerention in original aspect ratio which causes ~25% of picture lose vs scanning entire frame without ingerention in original aspect ratio* of the film - it's not my concern.

Scanning original frame does not interfere with director's vision.

I'm not suggesting it to anybody, I'm not promoting it, I'm not saying that this is how it should be - I'm saying that this would be a proper presentation for me.
It's my fault, because I described it as "proper" without explaining what I mean.

(* - if they used standard 16 mm film, original aspect ratio is 1:1.37 which means that we would get a couple of pixels at the sides. It cannot be compared to 25% of picture lose)

[kei17]

The "intended framing" of each shot is set by the key animator. The bigger square in the first image shows what must be shot on film, and the smaller one with rounded edges shows what will be shown on CRT TVs. Everything important must be placed inside the smaller one.


Original drawing


Original broadcast


DBox


Orange Brick



In this case, the Orange Brick shot doesn't seem too narrow even if you compare it with the intended framing, but TVs including today's HD widescreen ones crop the overscan area unless you choose a "dot by dot" setting. So, it's even more cropped on many people's TVs.

Orange Brick on my TV (Toshiba REGZA 55ZG2)

[dbboxkaifan]

The "intended framing" of each shot is set by the key animator. The bigger square in the first image shows what must be shot on film, and the smaller one with rounded corners shows what will be shown on CRT TVs. Everything important must be placed inside the smaller one.


Original drawing


Original broadcast


DBox


Orange Brick



In this case, the Orange Brick shot doesn't seem too narrow even if you compare it with the intended framing, but TVs including today's HD widescreen ones crop the overscan area unless you choose a "dot by dot" setting. So, it's even more cropped on many people's TVs.

Orange Brick on my TV (Toshiba REGZA 55ZG2)

Whoa, the Orange Bricks actually looking better than the Dragon Boxes? Didn't expect that.

[kei17]

Whoa, the Orange Bricks actually looking better than the Dragon Boxes? Didn't expect that.

I removed the color cast, so it originally looks worse actually. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the framing issue I'm talking about here.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

The "intended framing" of each shot is set by the key animator. The bigger square in the first image shows what must be shot on film, and the smaller one with rounded corners shows what will be shown on CRT TVs. Everything important must be placed inside the smaller one.

Is there a possibility that they were shooting "bigger squares" on the original negatives, and then they did framing and shot the rounded corners-ones on 16 mm film for television? It seems that this frame contains only the smaller shot:



Edit: Too quick question Dragon Box footage contains more picture than small shot with rounded corners.

[kei17]

The "intended framing" of each shot is set by the key animator. The bigger square in the first image shows what must be shot on film, and the smaller one with rounded corners shows what will be shown on CRT TVs. Everything important must be placed inside the smaller one.

Is there a possibility that they were shooting "bigger squares" on the original negatives, and then they did framing and shot the rounded corners-ones on 16 mm film for television? It seems that this frame contains only the smaller shot:

*snip*

You're totally mistaken. There's no difference in framing between original negatives and positive prints. The bottom of that shot must correspond with the bigger square's bottom line in the original drawing. CRT TVs, especially small ones, crop great amount of image not to show distortions caused by CRT's mechanism. Smaller squares show how image will be cropped on such TVs. Rounded edges represent those on CRT screens and have nothing to do with film.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

You're totally mistaken. There's no difference in framing between original negatives and positive prints. The bottom of that shot must correspond with the bigger square's bottom line in the original drawing. CRT TVs, especially small ones, crop great amount of image not to show distortions caused by CRT's mechanism. Smaller squares show how image will be cropped on such TVs. Rounded edges represent those on CRT screens and have nothing to do with film.

Now I understand I didn't know much about how original scenes were framed for shooting on film. I didn't know that they were considering CRT TVs parameters. Thanks for explaining. I only thought that it would be nice to see everything that was recorded. Can you describe what you think (know) about it? I think that everything that was shot on film is worth seeing (was it fully drawn and colored?)

[kei17]

I only thought that it would be nice to see everything that was recorded. Can you describe what you think (know) about it? I think that everything that was shot on film is worth seeing (was it fully drawn and colored?)

It's always nice to see extra image for die-hard fans like me, but things not supposed to be seen should be cropped for home video releases. For example, during the fight between Vegeta and Android 18, one shot has 18 standing still even though she's been thrown against a cliff in the previous shot. They reused a cel from another scene since she would not be visible on TVs, but she accidentally became visible on the Orange Brick and the widescreen version of Kai because of the extra image on the sides.

[Roland_ELoG]

The takeaway here is that nobody does a shot for shot reframing, since stuff like that sneaks by.

Hrmm. If it's never going to be perfect, we might as well use the original version eh.

[KingofWisdom]

Wow, that's bad. I never knew that. Don't think I could ever buy a 16:9 release of the episodes again in good conscience.

[Sin]

Wow, that's bad. I never knew that. Don't think I could ever buy a 16:9 release of the episodes again in good conscience.

Likewise. Sometimes I wish I was more ignorant to the blatant issues with 16:9 footage and 're-mastering', maybe I'd be more content.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

It's always nice to see extra image for die-hard fans like me, but things not supposed to be seen should be cropped for home video releases. For example, during the fight between Vegeta and Android 18, one shot has 18 standing still even though she's been thrown against a cliff in the previous shot. They reused a cel from another scene since she would not be visible on TVs, but she accidentally became visible on the Orange Brick and the widescreen version of Kai because of the extra image on the sides.

Another thing that I would never be able to learn with sources that I'm using. It's obvious that the "extra footage" isn't important, but I didn't know that it contains errors like this. It made me even more curious I wonder how many errors like this exist.

So, if I understand it correctly, the smaller selection was a guide for the people responsible for doing telecine transfers. The original broadcast sample suggest that they telecined a little bit more footage from each side with CRT TVs in mind (heavy distortions are caused by the "nature" of the sinusoidal signals with which horizontal/vertical deflection coils responsible for stretching the picture over the screen are powered by - that's why some part of the image needs to be cropped).

Judging by various 4:3 home video releases (and original broadcast), I would never be able to conclude that there was something like "key area selection" - they all have a little bit different framing.

The frame which I used for my comparison/explanation comes from the ending of the first Dragon Ball movie. Shape of this frame is different than original 16 mm film, but I think that it serves well for what I wanted to say there.

(Theory about shooting the bigger part, framing and re-shooting it again was so stupid, that I myself am ashamed by the fact that I'm the author of it... )

[thempafighter]

Hey guys I just wanna let you know that season 2 is on amazon and apparently the aspect ratio is also 4:3 like with season 1 (even though it's really 16:9)

http://www.amazon.com/Dragonball-Z-Seas ... y+season+2