Is Dragon Ball a misogynist series?

[Ringworm128]

She still looks like a twig compared to some men.

[rereboy]

"If the main theme is fighting, is only natural that almost all of the fighting cast is male"

Why?

No offense, but quite frankly, that's because women are physically weaker than men, which is a biological fact and the reason why many sports are not co-gender

Tell that to WWF wrestler China...

Men do have an edge over women because they have much higher testosterone levels which aids muscle growth, but women can build muscle and become just as strong or stronger than most men if they choose to do so.

Really? You mean that there are EXCEPTIONS? Wow, couldn't have imagined that. Guess what, there are also women much taller than men and much heavier. Doesn't mean that they aren't also exceptions.

Btw, that woman is only clearly superior to regular man. If you compare her to men of the same height as her that do the same amount of training and whatnot, she would be, most likely, at a disadvantage again.

[kei17]

Can woman become very strong? Yes. Can they become the strongest among all mankind? No, and the gap between the limits of men and women is wide. We all know this fact, thus female fighters being fewer than male fighters in a series about superhuman martial arts fighting can be justified and considered natural.

Of course Toriyama still could've introduced more female fighters even if they're not as strong as the others, but as many people have already stated, Dragon Ball is a shonen series. Shonen manga artists are always asked or forced to introduce more male characters that are easier for the most target audience to empathize with. He had no real reasons to bother to increase weaker female fighters.

I'm getting kind of uncomfortable with sounding like a sexist. I like bulky and strong women, so I myself really wish he had introduced more female fighters.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Going with GafferTape, the thought never occurred to me, because it isn't. We've got five recurring females, three of which are independent, defined, and equals in their relationships, the other two (Lunch and 18) are simply underdeveloped, and all five of them are swept aside when they cannot contribute to a fight no differently than 97% of the Dragon Ball cast in general. That and we all know Toriyama's gone on record saying he's unsure of how to write women and romance, and has been getting praise for writing stronger women in spite of that effectively for decades now, both while the series was running and after when we had more genuine anime floozies (Shonen and otherwise) to highlight that.

In This Thread:

1. People constantly running for the other extreme.

"DB isn't friendly to homosexuals" "OH SO YOU WANT 20 DIFFERENT GAYS WITH THEIR OWN STORY ARCS HUH"
"DB's portrayal of sexuality might be damaging" "WHY DON'T YOU JUST BAN FOOD THEN HA HA GOTCHA THERE"
"DB doesn't have a great portrayal of women" "OH SO YOU WANT FLATCHESTEDwhateverthehellwasgoingonthere"

Stop it.

2. People not understanding that individual characters can all individually be fine while still making the collective mass not fine.

Woman being a mother - fine.
Woman being a one off joke - fine.
Woman being a minor character - fine.
ALL women characters being mothers, jokes or bit parts - not fine.

Thank you. Right to the heart of the matter.

Seriously, what's the problem?

That, and what if the reader of Dragon Ball happens to be trying to get over some sexual sin him/herself, like adultery or promiscuity? All of a sudden, you've got this lewd image getting them front and center, the same way an alcoholic would start to sweat and writhe when someone puts a bottle of alcohol in front of him/her. And for what? Some immature joke? Is that really worth it?

There's a time and place for a mature discussion about that; and it is absolutely a discussion to be had.

Problem is that in the grand scheme, Dragon Ball has no place in that discussion, even if you take its all 3 sex jokes and accepting of a dirty old man as needlessly tasteless.

[Scarz]

I told myself I would stay away from this topic, but I cannot resist! I must throw in my two cents in a pond full of pennies.

kei17 is right and I don't see you're comments as sexists. There are some exceptions for "Anything you can do, I can do better" mentally we placed on society. A woman's natural physiology is weaker than a man's. That's not to say that woman can't kick a man's ass if she trained and worked out. But I'm talking about the mass majority of women compared to the average male. We are simply not "built" to do certain tasks (but it doesn't mean we can't... sometimes).

But, since Dragon Ball is a fictional manga, I don't see why Toriyama couldn't just pull something out of his bum and made a female character keep up with even some of the "B level" characters. Hell, they don't even have to be strong, just relevant. A lot of the female cast were just thrown to the side and paid no attention to after a while. And that's a damn shame.

Then again, DB is shounen manga at it's core. Big strong dudes fighting other big strong dudes is what young Japanese (and American) boys want to see. Or at least that's what we like to believe.

Dragon Ball is not misogynistic, just not very planned out when it comes to writing female characters.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Btw, that woman is only clearly superior to regular man. If you compare her to men of the same height as her that do the same amount of training and whatnot, she would be, most likely, at a disadvantage again.

They can get much bigger than China, do a google image search for women bodybuilders, they look like USSJ. It's a choice, and most women choose not to look like that (Thank Kami)

[Cursed Lemon]

The thing of it is that women are not the only characters who are made entirely useless in the series - a LOT of male characters become completely pathetic by combat standards. Sure, they lasted longer than the women, but ultimately this is the Goku and Vegeta Show.

To add a competent woman into the mix now, it would have to be a villain. There's just no way you can throw a new super-strong female hero into the show and have it not scream, "TOKEN".

[UpFromTheSkies]

We choose to play certain roles in our society, and most women choose to play the soft feminine role, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as it's their choice. This is reflected in our art, and it's not sexist or misogynist as long as the art doesn't say that women are inferior for playing that role, or that they are incapable of playing a different role, and I don't believe Dragon Ball does that at all.

[rereboy]

Btw, that woman is only clearly superior to regular man. If you compare her to men of the same height as her that do the same amount of training and whatnot, she would be, most likely, at a disadvantage again.

They can get much bigger than China, do a google image search for women bodybuilders, they look like USSJ. It's a choice, and most women choose not to look like that (Thank Kami)

I mentioned men of the same height and same training because that's the only way to actually just compare the gender. A much taller person has the advantage of size no matter the gender.

[TheGmGoken]

"If the main theme is fighting, is only natural that almost all of the fighting cast is male"

Why?

No offense, but quite frankly, that's because women are physically weaker than men, which is a biological fact and the reason why many sports are not co-gender

Tell that to WWF wrestler China...




Men do have an edge over women because they have much higher testosterone levels which aids muscle growth, but women can build muscle and become just as strong or stronger than most men if they choose to do so.

Wwf is a Wild life foundation. Its Wwe since we are in the present time. Also I'm pretty damn sure Kei was talking about AVERAGE WOMEN compared to AVERAGE MEN. Its kinda obvious that women can become stronger

[Brodes]

Really interesting to see how a lot of the board members here view women and homosexuals. The core of the matter is that Rocketman is right, and if you're arguing against him you might have some issues.

[Rocketman]

Vegeta can't be a woman because women are weaker than men. Even women born to a species evolved for a planet with ten times the gravity of Earth.

It's rather interesting. Whenever I post about the Moon lunacy or the issues with hyperfast travel, I get shouted down with cries of "IT'S FANTASY DINOSAURS AND FLYING CARS AND KI ROBBLEROBBLE". But when it comes to excluding women, suddenly (highly, highly overexaggerated) differences between the real-world sexes take priority....

[The Time Traveller]

Vegeta can't be a woman because women are weaker than men. Even women born to a species evolved for a planet with ten times the gravity of Earth.

Vegeta is irrational, makes a ton of mistakes, a mooch, loses a lot, is obsessed with a man and gets very emotional, if he was a woman I'm sure people would complain about her being a sexist representation of women.

Plus he's a total bitch.

[TheGmGoken]

Really interesting to see how a lot of the board members here view women and homosexuals. The core of the matter is that Rocketman is right, and if you're arguing against him you might have some issues.

So since I disagree and I think Db isn't sexist I'm sexist cause I dont share same opinion as Rocketman?

[Rocketman]

I am the light in the darkness. I am truth.

[Super Sonic]

I wouldn't call it one. Though will ask does anyone else find it funny we got a thread on this as the US distributor usually advertises other series of "boobies and more boobies"?

[rereboy]

Vegeta can't be a woman because women are weaker than men. Even women born to a species evolved for a planet with ten times the gravity of Earth.

It's rather interesting. Whenever I post about the Moon lunacy or the issues with hyperfast travel, I get shouted down with cries of "IT'S FANTASY DINOSAURS AND FLYING CARS AND KI ROBBLEROBBLE". But when it comes to excluding women, suddenly (highly, highly overexaggerated) differences between the real-world sexes take priority....

Right, cause that's totally the same thing... You are failing to comprehend that its about the target audience expectations and, guess what, they expect men to be superior fighters, like EVERYONE does, because they usually are in reality.

Why the hell should the author go out of his way to have more female fighters anyway? What sort of advantage would he achieve with that? He already went beyond reality by making mixed tournament fights and even a couple of powerful female fighters, one of them even stronger than a Super Saiyan.

You are basically arguing that the author should go agaisnt what everyone expects due to some kind of unnecessary sense of equality that doesn't exist in the slightest in reality when it comes to fighting in a manga about fighting. And for what? So that we may feel better reading the manga about women not usually being as strong as men in reality?

I wouldn't mind that there were more female fighters in Dragon Ball purely out of a greater sense of variety, but to actually complain about it? Arguing that its wrong not having more female fighters? No.

[90sDBZ]

Is it safe to say Toei were less sexist than Toriyama? After all GT had Pan as one of the most powerful and central characters and even had 18 help finish off a main villain while Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Uub and even Vegeta were on the floor unconscious. Pan even got to humiliate Gero. Although the way Zangya ended up in movie 9 makes me reconsider.

[TheGmGoken]

So what I got from this thread was.

Db is sexist because the women had kids(Guess people want sea horses) , the female get beaten up in a fighting budokai , the lack of female characters being non useful(ignoring the fact humans not named Krillin was useless) , Vegeta is not a female, the main cast is a gang of men, and minor fan service. Db is also homophobic because there wasn't gay characters with a deep background story

[RandomGuy96]

No, DB is homophobic because both of its gay characters are negatively stereotyped caricatures, with one being a woman hating hyper feminine clean freak mass murderer and the other being an inappropriately dressed pedophile joke character. How was that so hard to understand?