Wasted potential in Dragonball

[Hades]

What parts of Dragonabll made you think that Toriyama had missed out on some great ideas?

For me:

- Goku and Vegeta as the last Saiyans. Seriously, they're like The Doctor and the Master in that they are the last of a mighty race which fell in a war, which made for interesting dynamics between the two (both in Doctor who and Dragonball). That should have had more focus throughout the series, which was what gave the Buu Saga notches for character Development (Vegeta accepting that humanity, for all their faults, are the heirs to the Saiyans, and in their final fight with Buu, accepting Kakarrot was the better of the two)
- More side-stories. Toriyama could have overseen several sanctioned side-stories (one around Buu, The Saiyan/Freeza War - which in my version could have been like the Time War, Freeza's Empire after the War, the impact of Freeza's and Cold's deaths) which would have answered many questions about the DB Universe
- More general planning. Freeza could have implied that he's the strongest "known" being in the universe, which would have foreshadowed Cold and Buu.
- Misuse of the Dragon Balls. The Elder Kaioshin warned about what happened if the dragonballs were misued. What did he mean?

[Ringworm128]

No mention of Future Trunks during the Super #17 arc. He was one of the biggest characters of the Cell/Artificial Human arc, yet he doesn't even get a reference?

[Polyphase Avatron]

What parts of Dragonabll made you think that Toriyama had missed out on some great ideas?

For me:

- Goku and Vegeta as the last Saiyans. Seriously, they're like The Doctor and the Master in that they are the last of a mighty race which fell in a war, which made for interesting dynamics between the two (both in Doctor who and Dragonball). That should have had more focus throughout the series, which was what gave the Buu Saga notches for character Development (Vegeta accepting that humanity, for all their faults, are the heirs to the Saiyans, and in their final fight with Buu, accepting Kakarrot was the better of the two)

Somehow I could do without the overt homoerotic context present in Last of the Time Lords, though.

- More side-stories. Toriyama could have overseen several sanctioned side-stories (one around Buu, The Saiyan/Freeza War - which in my version could have been like the Time War, Freeza's Empire after the War, the impact of Freeza's and Cold's deaths) which would have answered many questions about the DB Universe

I never got the impression there was much of a war between Frieza and the Saiyans, more like he just landed on their planet, beat up King Vegeta, and said "okay bitches, I'm in charge now".

- More general planning. Freeza could have implied that he's the strongest "known" being in the universe, which would have foreshadowed Cold and Buu.

Frieza is way too arrogant for that. I mean in Battle of Gods it's implied/stated that Bills and Frieza knew each other, and therefore Frieza knew Bills was stronger than him, yet he still claimed he was the strongest.

Misuse of the Dragon Balls. The Elder Kaioshin warned about what happened if the dragonballs were misued. What did he mean?

[/quote]

Ever seen GT? (If you haven't, lucky you)

[Fizzer]

I always saw the parallel between Goku and Vegeta and The Doctor and The Master, and I do wish there'd been a more constant conflict between Goku and Vegeta. Things could have worked out for them to have fought again on Namek, or in the Cell arc after Vegeta become a Super Saiyan, in addition to the Buu arc.

[Hades]

@PA

1. Agreed, though I was more talking about the old school Doctor and Master rivalry. Then again, the same could be said about Batman and Joker (blame Frank Miller).

2. Honestly, for the "Super Saiyan" scre, I'd have done it as the Saiyans and Freeza's empire duking it out in one hell of a war, before Freeza gets involved directly. Hell, that could be how he became dominant and set up the Planet Trade so recently, with the Saiyan War being DB's Time War in terms of scale, displacing trillions. I would be the perfect opportunity to organise your empire along those lines.

3. Even the most arrogant people slip up, and I was thinking more along the lines of Freeza implying he is aware of Babidi and Dabura. Hell, mention his father or Cooler in more detail.

4. It was just before the final Buu fight.

@Fizzer

I'd say Vegeta was more like The Doctor (Both fought in war and had seen the destruction that it caused) and Goku was more like The Master (Fled and became human). But still, Vegeta could have had resentment towards Goku be more pronounced throughout the Cell Saga (like in the Buu Saga, when he raged about how Goku had everything handed to him on a Platter and Vegeta had been a slave for decades to find that his species is gone)

[Cursed Lemon]

No mention of Future Trunks during the Super #17 arc. He was one of the biggest characters of the Cell/Artificial Human arc, yet he doesn't even get a reference?

Future Trunks and GT Trunks fusion?

WHAT WOULD WE CALL IT?!?!

[Kid Buu]

No mention of Future Trunks during the Super #17 arc. He was one of the biggest characters of the Cell/Artificial Human arc, yet he doesn't even get a reference?

Future Trunks and GT Trunks fusion?

WHAT WOULD WE CALL IT?!?!

Mary Sue.

[Kakarot88]

Piccolo's back story I would have love dto see what Kami went through to beocme God and what Dende will do to appoint another one.

Just overall more back stories...how did Karin become Karin, who built the tower etc?

Maybe some more info on what happens to Freeza's empire after his desolation

[dbzfan7]

All of the boys. Gohan never grew up to be able to manage a win on his own like he should have (also the whole potential build up since the beginning of Z went down the shitter in less than 2 chapters after we finally got to see the true depths of his potential). And Goten and Trunks pretty much didn't accomplish anything at all individually. Maybe Gotenks would kinda count too with his only accomplishment being that he was really powerful.

Super Boo. I personally think he should have somehow remained instead of the cop out Kid Boo.

[Blade]

In two letters? GT.

The premise of the Black Star Dragonball hunt, Baby and the Evil Dragons are excellent on paper. I'd say on the whole, for every 10 great ideas in GT there's only one bad one - but the execution is almost piss poor. Sometimes it's almost like the writers were mocking the fanbase, teasing tantalising ideas only to cop out at the last moment. It's a series of antithesis's, even beyond the plot - for example, it looks great - the art is fantastic, but the scene direction and fight choreography? Tame at best.

Maybe some more info on what happens to Freeza's empire after his desolation

Abo and Kado got really strong and started asserting rule over some of Freeza's former stomping grounds.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Just overall more back stories...how did Karin become Karin, who built the tower etc?

The tower is a tree. Bora and Upa's ancestors placed stone decorations around it as kept growing over time; and presumably continue to do so if the tree grows in the modern age. --DBO

[JulieYBM]

Ignoring the mishandling of all of the cool concepts in Dragon Ball GT, I've been thinking for a while now it would have been so awesome if Bora had taken Panput's place in the twenty-second Tenka'ichi Budoukai. Panput is such a throwaway character that he's really the only blight on an otherwise awesome story arc. Had Bora fought Gokuu the eventual fight with Kuririn could have been strengthened as a link in a chain. It would have also helped to cement Upa as a regular side character, ala Oolong and Pu'erh.

I also wish Toriyama had expanded on the police's involvement in the Red Ribbon Army arc. I believe it was Blooma who said that "even the police are afraid of the Red Ribbon Army!" Such leads me to wonder if this fear could have been expanded upon with corrupt police, politicians, or military officials. One of the things I love about the 1986 cartoon is how the crisis with Piccolo Daimaou led to smaller scenes with the civilians in panic. Snow had a small storyline in that arc and there was even a scene with police trying to maintain order at a prison, with a nice little voice performances by Gouri Daisuke. I mentioned it jokingly in another thread, but I think a look into the political ramifications of the Red Ribbon Army on the World King's tenure would be interesting, especially if done ala Dr. Strangelove.

The 1986 cartoon series really did a great job on picking up on and expanding cool little elements of the story. I love how the staff managed to turn Colonel Silver into a real mysterious force.

[Hellspawn28]

GT is one huge wasted potential and Super 17 could have been so much better. We had villains coming back to life and we hardly see them get killed off. I like the scene where Vegeta kills Nappa again. Maybe had Vegeta meet King Vegeta for the first time in years and see how his father reacts to his son after so many years. Babidi also escapes from Hell and he was killed off screen. Having Ubb killing Babidi would have been a cool idea to see how Babidi react seeing Buu reborn as a human being.

Super 17 also had Cell and Freeza team up together to kill off Goku. Having the two best villains together as a team was so awesome and I remember as a kid waiting to see that episode. I was so let down since it was only a episode long and they both got their asses kick way too easily. Having those two fused together could have give Goku a good match.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

Tenshinhan. He was introduced as this very gifted fighter who could copy techniques like the Kamehameha after seeing it just once, not to mention he had access to moves like the Kikoho. Based on this I believe he could have easily mastered the Kaioken, at the very least. But unfortunately Toriyama never really took him anywhere, he just became the next person in line to be overshadowed by Goku.

[TheMightyOzaru]

One word: Gohan.

[Blade]

One word: Gohan.

How? He saved the Universe from Cell. Sure, in the Buu arc he didn't save the day in the end - but it's not like his role in the story was entirely peripheral, he probably had more screen time than any character apart from Goku.

[Weejus]

As a long-time Doctor Who fan, I liked the little point about Goku and Vegeta sharing the same relationship with The Doctor and The Master. While we're on the subject, anyone else think this theme would fit in certain scenes in DBZ, such as when Goku sacrifices himself in the Cell Games? (I'm probably blinded by DW nostalgia when I state that opinion)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7eHyJ8_1Y

[Kingsley]

The Goku and Vegeta rivalry if you can call it that. The two times they fought evenly were the best parts of the series but Vegeta was pushed aside by Goku so easily not soon after.

[Ringworm128]

Not placing Saiyan Blood when Vegeta first went SSJ in Kai.

[NintendoBlaze53]

Not placing Saiyan Blood when Vegeta first went SSJ in Kai.

TFS fixed that for us. On topic a few of the Kai songs where hit and miss mainly with the Kikuchi score and a few the insert songs which were featured on the OST, but not in the show.