Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
When it says he has "power surpassing that of a pure-hearted Saiyan" (probably not exact wording), do you take that to mean his dormant power or the power he currently has at his disposal?
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.
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Insertclevername
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
By the way you phrased it, I'm certain they're talking about his current power.
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Well, here's the exact quote.
He has "power surpassing even that of a pure Saiyan."
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... in#p603796
I agree with you, by the way. I've just been seeing a few people argue that it means his potential, mostly as a way to make Goku and Vegeta stronger than Gohan and Gotenks in the movie.
He has "power surpassing even that of a pure Saiyan."
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... in#p603796
I agree with you, by the way. I've just been seeing a few people argue that it means his potential, mostly as a way to make Goku and Vegeta stronger than Gohan and Gotenks in the movie.
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.
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Insertclevername
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Yeah, it just seems like if they were referring to his potential, they'd be more specific about that.
"Power [that may] surpass even that of a pure Saiyan!"
"Power [that may] surpass even that of a pure Saiyan!"
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
I wouldn't read too much into it.
Nappa and Raditz were pure Saiyans - I don't think it's very revealing to state that, as a half-blood, he still surpasses them.
Plus, if you watch Battle of Gods, I'd say it's more-than-implied that within the confines of the movie plot at least, that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Gohan.
Aside from their effectiveness against Birus in battle, there's those two little throw-away lines at the end where Vegeta asserts that he surpassed Goku for a moment, and Birus wonders if one day Vegeta and Goku will pose a challenge to him. As frankly, they're just as good as indicators of strength as a careless sentence in a website biography, and if anything hold weight of superiority in that they're actually in the movie,
Nappa and Raditz were pure Saiyans - I don't think it's very revealing to state that, as a half-blood, he still surpasses them.
Plus, if you watch Battle of Gods, I'd say it's more-than-implied that within the confines of the movie plot at least, that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Gohan.
Aside from their effectiveness against Birus in battle, there's those two little throw-away lines at the end where Vegeta asserts that he surpassed Goku for a moment, and Birus wonders if one day Vegeta and Goku will pose a challenge to him. As frankly, they're just as good as indicators of strength as a careless sentence in a website biography, and if anything hold weight of superiority in that they're actually in the movie,
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Super Vegetto is stated to have power surpassing that of a Super Saiyan 3. The only Super Saiyan 3s at that point were Goku & Gotenks, so he is stronger than Goku & Gotenks.
SS4 Gogeta was stated to have power surpassing that of a Super Saiyan 4. The only Super Saiyan 4s at that point were Goku & Vegeta, so he is stronger than Goku & Vegeta.
Gohan is stated now to have power surpassing that of a pure-blooded Saiyan. The only pure-blooded Saiyans at this point are Goku, Vegeta and Tarble, so he is stronger than Goku, Vegeta, and Tarble.
SS4 Gogeta was stated to have power surpassing that of a Super Saiyan 4. The only Super Saiyan 4s at that point were Goku & Vegeta, so he is stronger than Goku & Vegeta.
Gohan is stated now to have power surpassing that of a pure-blooded Saiyan. The only pure-blooded Saiyans at this point are Goku, Vegeta and Tarble, so he is stronger than Goku, Vegeta, and Tarble.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
They're prob talking about Tarble.
In all honesty until I visited Kanzenshuu I had never met anyone who thought Goku was not the strongest, Toriyama retconned Gohan plain and simple. The movie would make less than no sense if Gohan > Vegeta and Goku, otherwise Vegeta would NOT be freaking out that Goku was taken out by Beerus no effort. Rather, if Gohan was stronger than Goku, it would have made more sense for Vegeta to be like no worries we got Gohan AND Gotenks and they are sooooo much stronger than Kakarot.
Besides a ton of the ads also say "A being which surpasses Super Saiyan 3!" ...not Gohan but SS3 lol...
AND there's this:
Daizenshuu 3's chart placing SS3 above Ultimate Gohan
Herms's transaltion
Here's the locked thread
In all honesty until I visited Kanzenshuu I had never met anyone who thought Goku was not the strongest, Toriyama retconned Gohan plain and simple. The movie would make less than no sense if Gohan > Vegeta and Goku, otherwise Vegeta would NOT be freaking out that Goku was taken out by Beerus no effort. Rather, if Gohan was stronger than Goku, it would have made more sense for Vegeta to be like no worries we got Gohan AND Gotenks and they are sooooo much stronger than Kakarot.
Besides a ton of the ads also say "A being which surpasses Super Saiyan 3!" ...not Gohan but SS3 lol...
AND there's this:
Daizenshuu 3's chart placing SS3 above Ultimate Gohan
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
"You might think you know everything there is to know about me, but really, you're not even CLOSE."
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
Spoiler:
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Super Saiyan Turlast x4
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Well, if Gohan is undoubtedly more powerful than Gotenks, I don't see how Super Saiyan 3 could ever be considered above Gohan based on the form alone.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
What's more, that's one of the Anime Daizenshuu, not a manga one. And if you read Herms' post in that topic you posted with the page, you'd see that it's a timeline, not a ranking.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
D3 also puts Super Saiyan Grade 2, Super Saiyan Grade 3, Super Saiyan Full Power, and Super Saiyan 2 after Legendary Super Saiyan, yet Legendary Super Saiyan is stronger than all these forms (stronger than SS2 only in M10, unknown about M8), which means that they are not put in order of power. And while Super Saiyan 3 is called there the strongest Super Saiyan form, Ultimate is not a Super Saiyan form.
Plus, there are things that put not only U. Gohan, but even Super Saiyan Gotenks far above SS3 Goku.
Even BoG itself doesn't necessarily place Gohan & Gotenks above Goku. Vegeta's reaction to Beers is exactly the same as his reaction to Broli. With Broli, he had heard that the Legendary Super Saiyan is supposed to be the strongest in the universe. He still thinks he is stronger, until he witnesses his power: once that happened, he lost every hope, believing that the Legendary Super Saiyan is the strongest in the universe and can't be surpassed. With Beers, he remembers him from the past as being very strong, but he doesn't think he would be a problem. That is, until he learns that he defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku with only 2 blows. He then realizes that as the Hakaishin, he must be the strongest in the universe and can't be surpassed. And in the end, he was right: Beers defeated effortlessly U. Gohan, SS Gotenks, and Enraged SS2 Vegeta.
Yes, enraged Vegeta took him by surprise & tanked his punch, but that was because Beers wasn't serious, and after Vegeta got him by surprise, Beers allowed Vegeta to finish his attack, hoping that he would power-up for a 2nd time, this time into a Super Saiyan God. But this never happened, so Beers took him out instantly. Gohan & Gotenks on the other hand made Beers pissed off (Gohan by getting in his way with Boo, and Gotenks by reminding him of pudding), so he took them out before showing off, while Vegeta didn't pissed him off, and he showed him that he had a good fighting sense.
Plus, there are things that put not only U. Gohan, but even Super Saiyan Gotenks far above SS3 Goku.
Even BoG itself doesn't necessarily place Gohan & Gotenks above Goku. Vegeta's reaction to Beers is exactly the same as his reaction to Broli. With Broli, he had heard that the Legendary Super Saiyan is supposed to be the strongest in the universe. He still thinks he is stronger, until he witnesses his power: once that happened, he lost every hope, believing that the Legendary Super Saiyan is the strongest in the universe and can't be surpassed. With Beers, he remembers him from the past as being very strong, but he doesn't think he would be a problem. That is, until he learns that he defeated Super Saiyan 3 Goku with only 2 blows. He then realizes that as the Hakaishin, he must be the strongest in the universe and can't be surpassed. And in the end, he was right: Beers defeated effortlessly U. Gohan, SS Gotenks, and Enraged SS2 Vegeta.
Yes, enraged Vegeta took him by surprise & tanked his punch, but that was because Beers wasn't serious, and after Vegeta got him by surprise, Beers allowed Vegeta to finish his attack, hoping that he would power-up for a 2nd time, this time into a Super Saiyan God. But this never happened, so Beers took him out instantly. Gohan & Gotenks on the other hand made Beers pissed off (Gohan by getting in his way with Boo, and Gotenks by reminding him of pudding), so he took them out before showing off, while Vegeta didn't pissed him off, and he showed him that he had a good fighting sense.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
how can it possibly be a timeline if SS3 Gotenks and SS3 Goku appear BEFORE Ultimate Gohan?Kamiccolo9 wrote:What's more, that's one of the Anime Daizenshuu, not a manga one. And if you read Herms' post in that topic you posted with the page, you'd see that it's a timeline, not a ranking.
"You might think you know everything there is to know about me, but really, you're not even CLOSE."
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
Spoiler:
Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Ultimate Gohan has power surpassing pure Saiyan is stated. Ultimate Gohan > SSjin 3 Goku but the gap is not implied to be huge like in the Boo Saga. Gohan was able to hold bills for a second. After Birus defeats Gotenks and Gohan, Vegeta says he never thought would be at that kind of level. That implies Gotenks and Goan are stronger than Goku IMO.
Ultimate Gohan > SSjin 3 Gotenks > BOG SSjin 3 Goku > SSjin Gotenks IMO
Ultimate Gohan > SSjin 3 Gotenks > BOG SSjin 3 Goku > SSjin Gotenks IMO
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Ultimate came after Super Saiyan 2 for Gohan, but didn't come after Super Saiyan 3. Plus, Super Saiyan 3 was used by the main character in the final fight, and it's the final Super Saiyan form at that point, so putting it last looks better.Kakarot88 wrote:how can it possibly be a timeline if SS3 Gotenks and SS3 Goku appear BEFORE Ultimate Gohan?Kamiccolo9 wrote:What's more, that's one of the Anime Daizenshuu, not a manga one. And if you read Herms' post in that topic you posted with the page, you'd see that it's a timeline, not a ranking.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
What DBZGTKOSDH said. And while I can't read Japanese, I could read this:Kakarot88 wrote:how can it possibly be a timeline if SS3 Gotenks and SS3 Goku appear BEFORE Ultimate Gohan?Kamiccolo9 wrote:What's more, that's one of the Anime Daizenshuu, not a manga one. And if you read Herms' post in that topic you posted with the page, you'd see that it's a timeline, not a ranking.
I was wrong about it being Herms who said that though; it was the other guy who was translating it. And what's more, if it were a ranking, that would make Broly weaker than Trunks, something that is obviously false. And like I said before, that's an anime guidebook; it doesn't really have any bearing on the manga.If you mean the line going downwards, it's just the sagas/arcs. Freeza, Cell, Majin Boo. With branching off parts saying what form it is. It's not a diagram. It's just a timeline, saying when the forms appear. It's not like it's ranked.
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Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
For me there is no right or wrong to this, it's just what you get out of the franchise. I don't really care whose stronger than who so long as it's backed by reasoning. You and everyone else of the same opinion of Gohan have some great reasoning and I respect that.Kamiccolo9 wrote:I was wrong about...
I, personally, just do not see it that way because that is not how the story is portrayed. In my opinion the series is very straight forward, although contradictory, that in the end Son Goku "Is Numba One!" lol
"You might think you know everything there is to know about me, but really, you're not even CLOSE."
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
Spoiler:
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
I personally don't see any retcon anywhere. The manga makes it very clear that Evil Boo got weaker when he reverted to Pure Boo, and Toriyama found excuses to take Gohan & Gotenks out of the picture. The guidebooks and the anime never compared directly Gohan & Gotenks with Goku from that point on, and found excuses to take Gohan & Gotenks out of the picture so that Goku can shine (M13 had Hildegarn taking out Gohan & Gotenks when they were off-guard, with Goku beating Hildegarn through a weakness & a new powerful technique, BoG had Gohan & Gotenks piss off Beers so that Goku & Vegeta can shine, GT made Ultimate & Gotenks vanished).
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
Well, I was referring to being wrong about who I was quoting, not the content of the quoteKakarot88 wrote:For me there is no right or wrong to this, it's just what you get out of the franchise. I don't really care whose stronger than who so long as it's backed by reasoning. You and everyone else of the same opinion of Gohan have some great reasoning and I respect that.Kamiccolo9 wrote:I was wrong about...
I, personally, just do not see it that way because that is not how the story is portrayed. In my opinion the series is very straight forward, although contradictory, that in the end Son Goku "Is Numba One!" lol
I don't really care about this particular strength discussion anymore either; too many arguments have burnt it out of me. I was just saying that the guidebook this scan is from is an anime only one, and is therefore not a deciding factor in anything coming from the manga. I'm not arguing any strength issues here
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Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
I don't see why they would bother mentioning power surpassing a Pure Saiyan, as that would mean jack shit if it was just Tarble.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
I find it weird how people will point to the order of a form guide in an anime based guide book as 'evidence' that Goku is stronger than Gohan, but ignore the manga based guidebooks that indirectly say that Gohan is stronger. Or the anime based guides that say the same. Or the manga for that matter, but it directly says Gohan is stronger rather than indirectly (well, it says that too).
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Zantetsuken
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Re: Battle of Gods bio for Gohan
It specifically states "A" pure sayjin, not all and Not Goku.
Gohan is, and always has been weaker than Goku is my book. I read the manga and watched the anime and came to that conclusion. I didn't think anyone believed that otherwise until I found this site.
Gohan is, and always has been weaker than Goku is my book. I read the manga and watched the anime and came to that conclusion. I didn't think anyone believed that otherwise until I found this site.