Fanmanga - Dragon Ball New Age

[dbzfan7]

We'll see....I better not see SUPA SAIYA-JIN 2

When did this change? Every time I saw it before now it said 52, not 2

I didn't do it...though I'll wait for my verdict before I judge the scenario....which means nothing as this is still far more consistent then DBM has been.

[Malik_DBNA]

Does Goten have anything above SSJ?

Currently, no.

Still, I find it rather weird that he'd even need motivation for Super Saiyan 2. Given how easily he and Goten attained Super Saiyan 1, I wouldn't have thought it'd take much for them to gain any of the forms.

It is still assumed that some form of emotional or mental strife is required to unlock most SSJ transformations. Trunks and Goten likely achieved the form early in their age as children tend to get angered easily as they yet to have a firm grasp of their own emotions and let them loose easier (it was more difficult for Gohan because he was not born as strong as they were). SSJ, SSJ2 (as far as we know), and SSJ5 all required intense emotion to unlock.

I didn't do it...though I'll wait for my verdict before I judge the scenario....which means nothing as this is still far more consistent then DBM has been.

How do you mean? Consistent, I mean.

[dbzfan7]

I didn't do it...though I'll wait for my verdict before I judge the scenario....which means nothing as this is still far more consistent then DBM has been.

How do you mean? Consistent, I mean.

Let's just say there's nothing even remotely as stupid as King Cold being ridiculously strong and having transformations. Or anything remotely close to the Future Gohan DBM Special

[TheGmGoken]

I didn't do it...though I'll wait for my verdict before I judge the scenario....which means nothing as this is still far more consistent then DBM has been.

How do you mean? Consistent, I mean.

Let's just say there's nothing even remotely as stupid as King Cold being ridiculously strong and having transformations. Or anything remotelt close to the Future Gohan DBM Special

UGH that Future Gohan special was utter trash.....

[dbzfan7]

UGH that Future Gohan special was utter trash.....

It makes the early Jiji Af stuff look like a masterpiece.

[Saiga]

It is still assumed that some form of emotional or mental strife is required to unlock most SSJ transformations. Trunks and Goten likely achieved the form early in their age as children tend to get angered easily as they yet to have a firm grasp of their own emotions and let them loose easier (it was more difficult for Gohan because he was not born as strong as they were). SSJ, SSJ2 (as far as we know), and SSJ5 all required intense emotion to unlock.

So you're ignoring what the guides say then? Because it says that Vegeta and Goku unlocked theirs through training, not rage, and Goten and Trunks unlocked it naturally. Which, frankly, makes a shitload more sense than any of those forms being unlocked through anger, especially Goku with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3.

[TheGmGoken]

It is still assumed that some form of emotional or mental strife is required to unlock most SSJ transformations. Trunks and Goten likely achieved the form early in their age as children tend to get angered easily as they yet to have a firm grasp of their own emotions and let them loose easier (it was more difficult for Gohan because he was not born as strong as they were). SSJ, SSJ2 (as far as we know), and SSJ5 all required intense emotion to unlock.

So you're ignoring what the guides say then? Because it says that Vegeta and Goku unlocked theirs through training, not rage, and Goten and Trunks unlocked it naturally. Which, frankly, makes a shitload more sense than any of those forms being unlocked through anger, especially Goku with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3.

Well to be fair. SSj2 is NOT SSJ. Gohan needed rage for SSJ2. Goten and Trunks can be gifted and SSJ easily but that's just the only thing they had easily. Doesn't mean they get other forms easily. I mean Trunks going SSj2 from Aladjinn fucking with his emotions makes more sense than "I slacked off for years! Randomly trained again and got a new form".

[Malik_DBNA]

It is still assumed that some form of emotional or mental strife is required to unlock most SSJ transformations. Trunks and Goten likely achieved the form early in their age as children tend to get angered easily as they yet to have a firm grasp of their own emotions and let them loose easier (it was more difficult for Gohan because he was not born as strong as they were). SSJ, SSJ2 (as far as we know), and SSJ5 all required intense emotion to unlock.

So you're ignoring what the guides say then? Because it says that Vegeta and Goku unlocked theirs through training, not rage, and Goten and Trunks unlocked it naturally. Which, frankly, makes a shitload more sense than any of those forms being unlocked through anger, especially Goku with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3.

Training was still required, that much is certain, as the saiyan does require a certain level of energy to get each form. There is debate on whether anger is a REQUIREMENT for SSJ2, though it clearly was required for SSJ, for Gohan when he became a SSJ2, and is required in DBNA for SSJ5.

The wiki states:
"In order to achieve this transformation, the Saiyan must first gain a huge amount of energy (usually by training), far beyond that required for the first Super Saiyan form. Once enough energy is acquired, the Saiyan must experience a powerful emotional upheaval, much like the Super Saiyan transformation, but to a greater extent. Because of the intense emotion required to initiate the transformation, any mastery of the Full-Power Super Saiyan state, and mental stability attained therein, is negated, and the naturally remorseless nature of the Saiyan race is magnified, requiring them to remaster the personality changes. Even the gentle, polite Gohan became a hotheaded, merciless fighter after transforming, opting to torture Cell rather than kill him, despite Goku's pleas. The power output emitted by this form is greatly increased as well, as it doubles the strength of the regular Super Saiyan transformation."

[dbzfan7]

Never use a wiki...ever...we can link you to the guidebooks.

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031830 ... r_saiyan_2

[TheGmGoken]

Please don't use DBZ wiki. It's a bad source of facts.

the Saiyan must experience a powerful emotional upheaval, much like the Super Saiyan transformation, but to a greater extent. Because of the intense emotion required to initiate the transformation, any mastery of the Full-Power Super Saiyan state, and mental stability attained therein, is negated, and the naturally remorseless nature of the Saiyan race is magnified, requiring them to remaster the personality changes.

This is an example. Why would Goku be angry when he's at other world? What King Kai forbid food?

[Malik_DBNA]

Never use a wiki...ever...we can link you to the guidebooks.

please do

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Am I the only one that doesn't see an issue? Goten & Trunks are born with the ability to turn Super Saiyan without training & master it easily, but they still need training for anything beyond that, since we don't see SS3 kids running around (even though breaking the SS wall seems to be easier for them, since Gotenks transformed into SS3 after 1 week).

[Saiga]

I don't see an issue, but I do find it rather odd given just how much time has passed between then. Isn't it something like 15-20 years since they were kids now?

[Malik_DBNA]

I don't see an issue, but I do find it rather odd given just how much time has passed between then. Isn't it something like 15-20 years since they were kids now?

Well they have both slacked off immensely. They started out loving to fight then slowly ebbed off, caring more about their personal lives than fighting. It's no wonder it would take them so long to ascend

[TheGmGoken]

The only issue I saw was "Super Human"...kinda. Which Malik said he was changing anyways.

Also the lack of Goten...............................

Hey when the last chapter Goten appeared in. I forgot what hairstyle you used for him.

[goku the krump dancer]

I never saw what the big deal was with the whole Super Human/ Weird Kaioken thing that Krillin learned. People always complain that the humans are "useless", the guy (Malik) tries to give them a technique of sorts that boosts their combat relevance and its a problem?

I remember some of you were concerned that this new Kaioken was going to make Krillin as strong as a Super Saiyan, which again I still dont see a problem. How can you expect him to be a relevant combatant if he still has yet to surpass even Freeza?

[TheGmGoken]

I never saw what the big deal was with the whole Super Human/ Weird Kaioken thing that Krillin learned. People always complain that the humans are "useless", the guy (Malik) tries to give them a technique of sorts that boosts their combat relevance and its a problem?

I remember some of you were concerned that this new Kaioken was going to make Krillin as strong as a Super Saiyan, which again I still dont see a problem. How can you expect him to be a relevant combatant if he still has yet to surpass even Freeza?

I never complained that Humans were useless so that doesn't apply to me . If Krillin becomes as strong as a SSJ then that mean a PRESENT SSJ. Meaning Trunks and Goten's SSJ form.

[Malik_DBNA]

I never saw what the big deal was with the whole Super Human/ Weird Kaioken thing that Krillin learned. People always complain that the humans are "useless", the guy (Malik) tries to give them a technique of sorts that boosts their combat relevance and its a problem?

I remember some of you were concerned that this new Kaioken was going to make Krillin as strong as a Super Saiyan, which again I still dont see a problem. How can you expect him to be a relevant combatant if he still has yet to surpass even Freeza?

Even with Spirit Burst, he's not even as strong as 50% Freeza

[goku the krump dancer]

Well, what ever the case may be, I was just using that as an example because I remember people saying how horrible it would be if Krillin or whomever was as strong as a Super Saiyan. Which personally if that was the case I wouldn't have a problem with it, since by this point that's pretty much bare minimum in terms of power.

[Saiga]

I was someone who had a problem with it. I simply don't think it makes sense and I'm sick of all the fanfiction power ups made to prop up the humans. The power scaling of Dragon Ball left the humans massively, massively behind and a simply power up won't fix that unless it simply throws any sort of reason out the window.

The human's base power is just tiny compared to the Saiyans', so any power up made to make them competitive would need to be even greater than Super Saiyan. In which case, it'd make no sense why the Saiyans can't just learn that ability for themselves (after all Goku's shown to be more talented than them, and any technique humans can do a Saiyan logically should be able to as well) and replace Super Saiyan with the better technique. Give them anything less powerful than Super Saiyan and with their pitiful base forms, they're still useless. This gives us two-pronged problem:

1) The humans have a lower base power, so they need a better technique than Super Saiyan
2) A technique with a better technique than Super Saiyan would just be adopted by the Saiyans due to it's superiority

And they can't really catch up in base power with the Saiyans because they're too far behind, don't train as efficiently, and would just be bullshitting to have them suddenly be on par/surpass the base Saiyans through training. I know some people try to justify this by saying the series did it, but even if that were true (I only believe it is for Piccolo's gain training for the Androids) that doesn't excuse it at all. Weak moments in the original story don't justify weak moments in fanfiction, because these are things that should be avoided and for fanfiction writers that is much easier to do so - you develop at your own pace, have far more knowledge and resources available to you, and can correct things.

That's why I have a problem with it. The various ways fanfic authors come up with to boost humans often don't get beyond the two-pronged problem I outlined earlier. Given it's nature, it's obviously not easy to get around, although I've tried for my own story. This is why I'd just rather that fanfic authors just didn't try to make the humans competitive again, as done poorly it huts the integrity of the story and it's usually nothing more than fanservice. It's very unnecessary, and even then you could get that fanservice by having humans get some limelight without making them competitive in power.

Also, just to add, surpassing Freeza is both infeasible AND not enough to have them catch up. That's why it's so damn difficult to do.