New Movie Villains (in relation to?) Previous Movie Villains

[Kakashi]

That's stated by the producer and it makes sense. What do you think?

[Insertclevername]

Are you saying that you like the new movie villains more than the old ones or is this a power related discussion? I mean, using ">" and "<" isn't always very clear.

[VegettoEX]

I'm assuming based on virtually all of your posts that you're referring to their strength, but PLEASE specify this type of thing. There is almost nothing to go on in your post here. You HAVE to give some context in your posts.

And I furthermore have to assume you are specifically getting at Janenba compared to Hildegarn, so why not just come right out and say it?

Additionally, to get super-super-admittedly- anal about it, are you referring to Takao Koyama's blog post where he discusses Battle of Gods where he wrote:

That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

...? 'Cuz if so, he isn't actually the producer; he was the scenario writer (basically the scriptwriter) for the movies. Remember that lots of people have their hands in the production of pretty much everything non-manga (and even then Toriyama was influenced at times). So yeah, that's one quote, but it's also just one quote. I will concede that I don't remember every single interview ever, so apologies if there's something else you're referring to. I know there was Toei's informational website that people like to mention a bit that says something about Hildegarn, too, right...?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't disagree with it. I'd say Bio Broly is the only exception.

[Kingsley]

I never believed Bojack>M8 Broly. Bojack only really rolled on Gohan when he had his minions to fight with him at the same time, Broly however punked out Gohan pretty hard.

[Kakashi]

I'm assuming based on virtually all of your posts that you're referring to their strength, but PLEASE specify this type of thing. There is almost nothing to go on in your post here. You HAVE to give some context in your posts.

And I furthermore have to assume you are specifically getting at Janenba compared to Hildegarn, so why not just come right out and say it?

Additionally, to get super-super-admittedly- anal about it, are you referring to Takao Koyama's blog post where he discusses Battle of Gods where he wrote:

That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

...? 'Cuz if so, he isn't actually the producer; he was the scenario writer (basically the scriptwriter) for the movies. Remember that lots of people have their hands in the production of pretty much everything non-manga (and even then Toriyama was influenced at times). So yeah, that's one quote, but it's also just one quote. I will concede that I don't remember every single interview ever, so apologies if there's something else you're referring to. I know there was Toei's informational website that people like to mention a bit that says something about Hildegarn, too, right...?

Hildegran vs Janenba was not my point.

If the writer says it so should not we take it as a fact?

Kingsley, M9 Z senshi >>>> M8 Z senshi. M8 is before the Cell Games and at that time, Gohan is not known to be the strongest. Gohan was the weakest. It's a fact Bojack > M8 Broly though

Bojack never needed help. He was probably stronger than Gohan in his base state

[Kaboom]

"The following movie villain being stronger than the prior movie villain" is certainly a trend, but that doesn't make it a rule. Nothing says that, to cut to the chase, Janemba can't be stronger than Hildegarn if Toei considers them to compare that way.

[Son_Gohan]

Hildegran vs Janenba was not my point.

If the writer says it so should not we take it as a fact?

Kingsley, M9 Z senshi >>>> M8 Z senshi. M8 is before the Cell Games and at that time, Gohan is not known to be the strongest. Gohan was the weakest. It's a fact Bojack > M8 Broly though

Bojack never needed help. He was probably stronger than Gohan in his base state

So I'm guessing that's your true motive having insinuated by creating this thread?

In the full quote, it is stated:

In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

Since Goku wasn't the one fighting in Movie 9, it does not have to apply. One is free to interpret M8 Broly being stronger than Bojack if they wish, and M8 as being relevant to any time during the Cell Games, as the timeline in Daizenshuu 6 conveys.

[Michelle91]

I don't believe the whole villain gets stronger with new movie or saga rule. Bio Broli is shown to be weak and he's most likely around Semi Perfect Cell level. I do think Janemba is stronger then Hildegran since Janemba took down Goku when he was dead and Goku has more stamina when he is dead. I think they could be both equal, but I think Janemba could win 6/10.

[Hearts]

Bills 14
Janemba 12
Hirudegarn 13
Broly 2nd time 10
Bojack 9
Broly 8
Super Android 13 7
Bio-Broly 11
Metal Cooler 6
Cooler 5

Thats how i put it pretty much, the Bio-Broly to Broly part can be rearranged depending on opinions but its going through a pretty linear path

[Kakashi]

"The following movie villain being stronger than the prior movie villain" is certainly a trend, but that doesn't make it a rule. Nothing says that, to cut to the chase, Janemba can't be stronger than Hildegarn if Toei considers them to compare that way.

Because Janenba is not stronger than Hildegarn

Son_Gohan, the point of the thread is that new movie villains are greater than the previous ones

Also just because he says the opponents Goku fight doesn't mean Bojack is an exception. Goku is the main hero in most of the movies so he mentions him. Plus Bojack fought much stronger Z senshi so he is stronger. His point was that the new movie villains are stronger. That much is stated and you actually say people can "think" Broly in M8 is stronger even though it's wrong an extremely biased because you are going against the author's intent. Bio Broly is an exception because he fought weaker opponents. By the way, the Daizenshuu says M8 is in the last shadow before the Cell Games so that actually supports what I say. Also, the writer saying the new villains are stronger is probably because the Z senshi are stronger in every movie and we know M9 is Cell Games levels

[DBZGTKOSDH]

"The following movie villain being stronger than the prior movie villain" is certainly a trend, but that doesn't make it a rule. Nothing says that, to cut to the chase, Janemba can't be stronger than Hildegarn if Toei considers them to compare that way.

Because Janenba is not stronger than Hildegarn

I agree with you, but it's debatable, like it's debatable if Bio-Broli is stronger, equal, or weaker that Broli.

[Kakashi]

"The following movie villain being stronger than the prior movie villain" is certainly a trend, but that doesn't make it a rule. Nothing says that, to cut to the chase, Janemba can't be stronger than Hildegarn if Toei considers them to compare that way.

Because Janenba is not stronger than Hildegarn

I agree with you, but it's debatable, like it's debatable if Bio-Broli is stronger, equal, or weaker that Broli.

How is Bio Broli being weaker than the real Broli is debatable?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

How is Bio Broli being weaker than the real Broli is debatable?

Because he is a bio-clone of Broli, and bio-clones are stronger than normal humans, meaning that Bio-Broli should be stronger than Broli.

[Son_Gohan]

Because Janenba is not stronger than Hildegarn

Son_Gohan, the point of the thread is that new movie villains are greater than the previous ones

Also just because he says the opponents Goku fight doesn't mean Bojack is an exception. Goku is the main hero in most of the movies so he mentions him. Plus Bojack fought much stronger Z senshi so he is stronger. His point was that the new movie villains are stronger. That much is stated and you actually say people can "think" Broly in M8 is stronger even though it's wrong an extremely biased because you are going against the author's intent. Bio Broly is an exception because he fought weaker opponents. By the way, the Daizenshuu says M8 is in the last shadow before the Cell Games so that actually supports what I say. Also, the writer saying the new villains are stronger is probably because the Z senshi are stronger in every movie and we know M9 is Cell Games levels

Even further into the quote he mentions:

After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times.

Goku never really fights in Movie 10 or 11, with Movie 8 being the last time he had and Movie 9 falling in-between. So it would appear to coincide with his statement and provides the implication that Bojack would be inferior. Where is it stated that the Z Warriors became stronger in Movie 9? It is established in the film how Gohan and Vegeta hadn't kept up with their training, which tends to indicate the opposite. If the Daizenshuu does say that I must've missed it, mind showing me exactly where in the book that is? The only timeline it specifies to occur during the wait before the Cell Games is Movie 6.

[Kakashi]

Because Janenba is not stronger than Hildegarn

Son_Gohan, the point of the thread is that new movie villains are greater than the previous ones

Also just because he says the opponents Goku fight doesn't mean Bojack is an exception. Goku is the main hero in most of the movies so he mentions him. Plus Bojack fought much stronger Z senshi so he is stronger. His point was that the new movie villains are stronger. That much is stated and you actually say people can "think" Broly in M8 is stronger even though it's wrong an extremely biased because you are going against the author's intent. Bio Broly is an exception because he fought weaker opponents. By the way, the Daizenshuu says M8 is in the last shadow before the Cell Games so that actually supports what I say. Also, the writer saying the new villains are stronger is probably because the Z senshi are stronger in every movie and we know M9 is Cell Games levels

Even further into the quote he mentions:

After much hard work, I was unable to come up with an opponent stronger than Broli, and fell into a rut where I made him appear three times.

Goku never really fights in Movie 10 or 11, with Movie 8 being the last time he had and Movie 9 falling in-between. So it would appear to coincide with his statement and provides the implication that Bojack would be inferior. Where is it stated that the Z Warriors became stronger in Movie 9? It is established in the film how Gohan and Vegeta hadn't kept up with their training, which tends to indicate the opposite. If the Daizenshuu does say that I must've missed it, mind showing me exactly where in the book that is? The only timeline it specifies to occur during the wait before the Cell Games is Movie 6.

The Z senshi are stronger than in M9 than in M8, Vegeta is 2nd ROSAT and Gohan is his CG self. M8 Vegeta is 1st ROSAT and Gohan was the weakest Saiyan.

This just means he could not find someone stronger than M10 Broli which is why he made Bio Broli. He says he made him three times so obviously he explains the exception of why Bio Broli is weaker. You are twisting te facts

He mentions Goku because Goku symbolizes the Z senshi. That doesn't mean that other movies are irrelevant

M8 Broli just far outstrips USSJ Trunks so how is it hard when Bojack is Perfect Cell's level

[VegettoEX]

He mentions Goku because Goku symbolizes the Z senshi. That doesn't mean that other movies are irrelevant

I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too, by literally reading into what you want and figuratively reading into other things you want.

You can have it both ways, but you have to own up to it.

[Kakashi]

He mentions Goku because Goku symbolizes the Z senshi. That doesn't mean that other movies are irrelevant

I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too, by literally reading into what you want and figuratively reading into other things you want.

You can have it both ways, but you have to own up to it.

It's obvious that he meant new movie villains are stronger IMO

[Son_Gohan]

The Z senshi are stronger than in M9 than in M8, Vegeta is 2nd ROSAT and Gohan is his CG self. M8 Vegeta is 1st ROSAT and Gohan was the weakest Saiyan.

This just means he could not find someone stronger than M10 Broli which is why he made Bio Broli. He says he made him three times so obviously he explains the exception of why Bio Broli is weaker. You are twisting te facts

He mentions Goku because Goku symbolizes the Z senshi. That doesn't mean that other movies are irrelevant

M8 Broli just far outstrips USSJ Trunks so how is it hard when Bojack is Perfect Cell's level

In spite of the fact you asked others what they think, you've made it out as nothing more than a façade; you're not receptive or even care to consider any existing thoughts on the matter that may differ from your own, that much is clear by now. So why even pose the question as if the thread weren't created for a self-serving purpose? I asked you where it was expressed they had become stronger in M9, you couldn't provide it. I asked you where in the Daizenshuu this "last shadow before the Cell Games" was written, you couldn't provide that. Yet you still say things expecting someone to follow heedlessly, as in the movie's applicability to the original story, when there's even a timeline from a guidebook that would give reason for someone to believe otherwise.

I honestly can't fathom what's going through your head, why is it so important that someone has to interpret things the same way you do? What's being raised here is not even being argued as a fact, just as a possibility; so just accept that it can be interpreted differently and move on. If you are unable to do that; there is a problem, and you need to get it addressed.

[Kakashi]

The Z senshi are stronger than in M9 than in M8, Vegeta is 2nd ROSAT and Gohan is his CG self. M8 Vegeta is 1st ROSAT and Gohan was the weakest Saiyan.

This just means he could not find someone stronger than M10 Broli which is why he made Bio Broli. He says he made him three times so obviously he explains the exception of why Bio Broli is weaker. You are twisting te facts

He mentions Goku because Goku symbolizes the Z senshi. That doesn't mean that other movies are irrelevant

M8 Broli just far outstrips USSJ Trunks so how is it hard when Bojack is Perfect Cell's level

In spite of the fact you asked others what they think, you've made it out as nothing more than a façade; you're not receptive or even care to consider any existing thoughts on the matter that may differ from your own, that much is clear by now. So why even pose the question as if the thread weren't created for a self-serving purpose? I asked you where it was expressed they had become stronger in M9, you couldn't provide it. I asked you where in the Daizenshuu this "last shadow before the Cell Games" was written, you couldn't provide that. Yet you still say things expecting someone to follow heedlessly, as in the movie's applicability to the original story, when there's even a timeline from a guidebook that would give reason for someone to believe otherwise.

I honestly can't fathom what's going through your head, why is it so important that someone has to interpret things the same way you do? What's being raised here is not even being argued as a fact, just as a possibility; so just accept that it can be interpreted differently and move on. If you are unable to do that; there is a problem, and you need to get it addressed.

That's not what I said. The point of the thread is about the new movie villains and not a Bojack vs Broli. I have shown evidence. M8 Vegeta is 1st ROSAT because that's the time line of the movie and M9 Vegeta is CG Vegeta. M8 Gohan is the weakest Saiyan and weaker than Goku. M9 Gohan is the strongest. What more evidence do you need? Daizenshuu 6 says so in the time line chart.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2e52r8h.png