Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Opinions, opinions, opinions, AND opinions. I don't see any facts.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
But it's a fact he is the same one overall right? That is not stated as fact though so....Kaboom wrote:He might be, he might not. I personally have him a little stronger than that. Up to whoever's making up numbers for their own list.Kakashi wrote:Not everything has to be spelt out so it can be a fact. M2 Goku being the same one who (fought) Vegeta is not a fact?
Also, PLEASE quit double-posting.
Those are things based on evidence. Lol, saying otherwise is pure ignorance about non canonDBZGTKOSDH wrote:Opinions, opinions, opinions, AND opinions. I don't see any facts.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Kaio-ken x10, Super Saiyan, dead Freeza, Kami Dende, and SS2 Goku (debatable) weren't things yet in the anime (some of them not even in the manga), yet we saw them in movies.Kakashi wrote:Those are things based on evidence. Lol, saying otherwise is pure ignorance about non canon
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
By the way DBZGTKOSDH...does Gohan's Ultimate state sounding like Aangs Avatar state make sense...you once said it's a transformation...but it's not a transformation...I think treating it like the Avatar state might clear things up...Gohan uses his "Mystic state" to access his potential far beyond his limits...kinda like what happens when Aang uses the avatar state. Both can activate these states to reach the depths of their powers...
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
That would fit with how non-manga stuff seems to treat it like a transformation.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Aside from Kakashi's spiel being baseless opinion he's treating as fact, wasn't Cooler's movie unveiled right as Goku was fighting Freeza? Before he went Super Saiyan? So by Kakashi's logic, is Cooler weaker than 100% Freeza?
How do you take all the quotes from Goku and Vegeta that Gohan got weaker by "slacking off"?Combining the two, you could say that a lack of training means he didn't gain any strength, which means that the lack of rage boost leaves him weaker.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I've never watched Avatar (only the movie once in the theaters), so I've no idea what you are talking about.dbzfan7 wrote:By the way DBZGTKOSDH...does Gohan's Ultimate state sounding like Aangs Avatar state make sense...you once said it's a transformation...but it's not a transformation...I think treating it like the Avatar state might clear things up...Gohan uses his "Mystic state" to access his potential far beyond his limits...kinda like what happens when Aang uses the avatar state. Both can activate these states to reach the depths of their powers...
Other than the fact that he doesn't draw power from his rage, his skills suck badly to the point that he doesn't fight well. Vegeta was talking like Gohan was strong enough to beat Dabra, but it was taking too long.RandomGuy96 wrote:How do you take all the quotes from Goku and Vegeta that Gohan got weaker by "slacking off"?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I have already addressed it. You are ignoring itDBZGTKOSDH wrote:Kaio-ken x10, Super Saiyan, dead Freeza, Kami Dende, and SS2 Goku (debatable) weren't things yet in the anime (some of them not even in the manga), yet we saw them in movies.Kakashi wrote:Those are things based on evidence. Lol, saying otherwise is pure ignorance about non canon
I has nothing to do with Slug in M4 anyway. The movies follow the Anime. They are based on it. What else can they be based on?
The movie was revealed after Frieza went 100% and I am not treating my opinion as a fact. Movies being based on the Anime is Mormon sense and shownRandomGuy96 wrote:Aside from Kakashi's spiel being baseless opinion he's treating as fact, wasn't Cooler's movie unveiled right as Goku was fighting Freeza? Before he went Super Saiyan? So by Kakashi's logic, is Cooler weaker than 100% Freeza
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I'm not ignoring anything. Kaio-ken x10 wasn't mentioned yet in the anime by the time M3 came out, Super Saiyan wasn't said to be a transformation when M4 came out, Freeza was still alive & fighting Goku when M5 came out, Dende wasn't the Kami of Earth in the manga yet, not to mention the anime, when M6 came out, and Goku hadn't shown SS2 when he possibly transformed in M10.Kakashi wrote:I have already addressed it. You are ignoring it
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I think so to...it would also help explain things as well such as Goku wanting to fuse with Gohan post ritual and Goku being chosen as the god ritual candidate. Also how he powers up does somewhat change his appearance.Kaboom wrote:That would fit with how non-manga stuff seems to treat it like a transformation.
You could probably watch or read about the avatar state in a quick google search...you're missing out on a really good show.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I've never watched Avatar (only the movie once in the theaters), so I've no idea what you are talking about.
In other words the avatar state allows Aang (and Korra) to access all the knowledge of his past lives. This super charges his bending which lets him create massive storms, tidal waves, etc. While normally he can't (I think)..Gohan would pretty much be accessing from his super saiyan potential powers and beyond in a similar fashion as he was given a way to easily tap into his hidden powers without being enraged...but Gohan doesn't get the kickass eye glow like the avatars which symbolizes the avatar state.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Well yeah, I guess. Gohan either stays in his normal base and transforms into Super Saiyan & Super Saiyan 2, and then gets angry to get even stronger, or, he stays in base, and activates his Ultimate power-up, which increases his power far beyond his limits, and changes slightly his hairstyle, the look in his eyes, and makes him less pure and more merciless.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I kinda like to think of it also as the Elder Kaioshin drawing out all his dormant powers and beyond, and giving Gohan the key to accessing them as part of the dormant power included his transformations powers
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Well, this is how BoG portrays it, and the manga kinda hints it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Androids Saga SSjin Vegeta's battle power
I have him at 425,000,000
I have him at 425,000,000
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ZombieVito
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
260,000,000 for me.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
220,000,000. It might be a little higher in my next list.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I go with 200 million. In comparison, I have Mecha Freeza at 140 million, SSJ Trunks at 160 Million, Yardrat Goku at 170 million, Android 18 at 220 million, and 17 at 240 million.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I gots him at 280 million. Compared to Trunks-arc Goku at 190 million and Android 18 at 350 million.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
But Androids Saga Piccolo should be far stronger than Trunks Arc SSjin Trunks
He was confident beating the androids who he expected to be the ones who beat SSjin Trunks
Sick SSjin Goku is also implied to be stronger than Yardat SSjin Goku. I can't see Androids Saga SSjin Goku any less than 300,000,000
One Armed SSjin Future Trunks is in par with Trunks Arc SSjin Trunks who is stronger than Two Arms SSjin Future SSjin Trunks who is at least close to Namek Arc SSjin Goku
I still stick with Boo Arc SSjin Goku being far more than 40x stronger stronger than his Frieza Arc self. Toriyama is consistent with gaps.
He was confident beating the androids who he expected to be the ones who beat SSjin Trunks
Sick SSjin Goku is also implied to be stronger than Yardat SSjin Goku. I can't see Androids Saga SSjin Goku any less than 300,000,000
One Armed SSjin Future Trunks is in par with Trunks Arc SSjin Trunks who is stronger than Two Arms SSjin Future SSjin Trunks who is at least close to Namek Arc SSjin Goku
I still stick with Boo Arc SSjin Goku being far more than 40x stronger stronger than his Frieza Arc self. Toriyama is consistent with gaps.
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Zantetsuken
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Where do you come up with these crazy numbers?