"Gotenks surpassing Vegeta and the others".

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Alright, I'll do those as well.

[Draken]

I agree, Kid Buu easily wins....

by hiding in his master's ball until Gotenks and Gohan die of old age

[Zantetsuken]

I agree, Kid Buu easily wins....

by hiding in his master's ball until Gotenks and Gohan die of old age

Haters gonna hate.

[Herms]

This is going nowhere fast.

If you kids don't have anything more to add to the conversation besides taking pot-shots at each others' viewpoints, then it's probably time to just end the thread.

[Kamiccolo9]

I agree. This thread does not possess sufficient amounts of joy. No chance of planting the Christmas Tree of Might here.

[RandomGuy96]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING - I don't care what you say. Show me ONE, just ONE official source and I will forever shut my mouth about this issue.

Alright, just to debunk the whole "Buff Buu doesn't exist" notion. Herms describes it on page 20 of the translations thread:

Says Boo absorbed the South Kaioshin’s power and physique, evolving a powerful body, though it’s not clear how this changed his personality. From DBZ Son Goku Densetsu, an anime guidebook.

I'm pretty sure this is the image he's talking about (it doesn't display properly in the thread itself):


There's also this, from DB Forever, a manga guidebook:


According to Herms:

Says Boo was weakened by having his absorptions undone. From DB Forever.

Note who the image depicts next to the text: Mr. Buu. Removing the absorption of Mr. Buu is what caused the transformation into Pure Buu. There. A manga guidebook outright stated that reverting Super Buu to Pure Buu made him weaker. Is it over now?

[Zantetsuken]

Excuse me for being skeptical, but I'd like to see the image sources or for Herms to chime in on his own. You don't exactly have the best track record for being accurate...

[Zantetsuken]

Sure enough, I just googled it -
Herms didn't say that, it was from DBZ wiki -
Odd you would leave this out
"Describes Kid Buu as powered up, with an image of Super Saiyan 3 Goku"

"Says Goku has the "highest respect towards the strongest enemy"

[Kamiccolo9]

Sure enough, I just googled it -
Herms didn't say that, it was from DBZ wiki -
Odd you would leave this out
"Describes Kid Buu as powered up, with an image of Super Saiyan 3 Goku"

"Says Goku has the "highest respect towards the strongest enemy"

Herms did say that. Here's the topic.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=380 It's the first post at the top of the page.

And as for your quote, does that mean that Pure Buu is stronger than Buutenks and Buuhan? And if so, doesn't that contradict the manga, where Buutenks declares that he is the "strongest Majin?" And if so, wouldn't it make more sense to think that the quote is referring to Majin Buu in general, rather than Pure Buu in particular?

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P11.1
Boo: “…What do you think, Gohan? My strategy succeeded safely. Look, isn’t it magnificent? This is a moment that will never appear again, no matter what the future may hold: the birth of the strongest majin.”

The only way that quote could work the way you are intending is if Pure Buu is stronger than Buutenks and Buuhan, which he's not. So I'm not seeing how it supports your argument.

[Zantetsuken]

Sure enough, I just googled it -
Herms didn't say that, it was from DBZ wiki -
Odd you would leave this out
"Describes Kid Buu as powered up, with an image of Super Saiyan 3 Goku"

"Says Goku has the "highest respect towards the strongest enemy"

Herms did say that. Here's the topic.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=380 It's the first post at the top of the page.

And as for your quote, does that mean that Pure Buu is stronger than Buutenks and Buuhan? And if so, doesn't that contradict the manga, where Buutenks declares that he is the "strongest Majin?" And if so, wouldn't it make more sense to think that the quote is referring to Majin Buu in general, rather than Pure Buu in particular?

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P11.1
Boo: “…What do you think, Gohan? My strategy succeeded safely. Look, isn’t it magnificent? This is a moment that will never appear again, no matter what the future may hold: the birth of the strongest majin.”

The only way that quote could work the way you are intending is if Pure Buu is stronger than Buutenks and Buuhan, which he's not. So I'm not seeing how it supports your argument.

I can ask the same - Kaioshinn outright says that the absorbing the Kai's weakened him - so who is right here?

[Zantetsuken]

LOL, and that think further supports what I orginally stated


"Says Gohan-absorbed Boo is so powerful that on his own Goku is no match even as a Super Saiyan 3. From DBZ Son Goku Densetsu."

"Refers to Super Saiyan 3 as “the Super Saiyan that can appropriately be called strongest”. From the third TV Animation daizenshuu."

[Kamiccolo9]

I can ask the same - Kaioshinn outright says that the absorbing the Kai's weakened him - so who is right here?

No, he says absorbing Dai Kaioshin weakened him. Absorbing South Kaioshin made him become "that huge Buu."

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

LOL, and that think further supports what I orginally stated


"Says Gohan-absorbed Boo is so powerful that on his own Goku is no match even as a Super Saiyan 3. From DBZ Son Goku Densetsu."

"Refers to Super Saiyan 3 as “the Super Saiyan that can appropriately be called strongest”. From the third TV Animation daizenshuu."

It just says that Goku is no match for Buu. With all due respect,... duh.
The Elder Kaioshin's potential unlocking ability isn't a Super Saiyan form.

[Zantetsuken]

I can ask the same - Kaioshinn outright says that the absorbing the Kai's weakened him - so who is right here?

No, he says absorbing Dai Kaioshin weakened him. Absorbing South Kaioshin made him become "that huge Buu."

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

LOL, and that think further supports what I orginally stated


"Says Gohan-absorbed Boo is so powerful that on his own Goku is no match even as a Super Saiyan 3. From DBZ Son Goku Densetsu."

"Refers to Super Saiyan 3 as “the Super Saiyan that can appropriately be called strongest”. From the third TV Animation daizenshuu."

It just says that Goku is no match for Buu. With all due respect,... duh.
The Elder Kaioshin's potential unlocking ability isn't a Super Saiyan form.

Actually, it specifically says GohanBuu - not any other one. If we are supposed to believe he's no match for even superbuu, how is this a revelation?

[Kamiccolo9]

Actually, it specifically says GohanBuu - not any other one. If we are supposed to believe he's no match for even superbuu, how is this a revelation?

It's not a revelation, it's just an obvious statement. The guidebooks are full of them. He was no match for Buutenks either.

And if it's talking specifically about the Buuhan fight, think of who there is to compare Goku to. Vegeta was the only one who was still in the fight, everyone else was absorbed or dead. It's saying that "Goku, even with all his power, is no match for Buuhan", not "even Goku was helpless against Buuhan."

[Zantetsuken]

Actually, it specifically says GohanBuu - not any other one. If we are supposed to believe he's no match for even superbuu, how is this a revelation?

It's not a revelation, it's just an obvious statement. The guidebooks are full of them. He was no match for Buutenks either.

And if it's talking specifically about the Buuhan fight, think of who there is to compare Goku to. Vegeta was the only one who was still in the fight, everyone else was absorbed or dead. It's saying that "Goku, even with all his power, is no match for Buuhan", not "even Goku was helpless against Buuhan."

Again, I don't know how that is revelent unless Goku wasn't considered the strongest at this point.

Just like how it states Manjin Buu is powered up - in comparison to SuperBuu perhaps? Oh, of course not - that would go against what you believe.

[Kamiccolo9]

Actually, it specifically says GohanBuu - not any other one. If we are supposed to believe he's no match for even superbuu, how is this a revelation?

It's not a revelation, it's just an obvious statement. The guidebooks are full of them. He was no match for Buutenks either.

And if it's talking specifically about the Buuhan fight, think of who there is to compare Goku to. Vegeta was the only one who was still in the fight, everyone else was absorbed or dead. It's saying that "Goku, even with all his power, is no match for Buuhan", not "even Goku was helpless against Buuhan."

Again, I don't know how that is revelent unless Goku wasn't considered the strongest at this point.

Just like how it states Manjin Buu is powered up - in comparison to SuperBuu perhaps? Oh, of course not - that would go against what you believe.

He was the strongest...out of everyone still fighting. Everyone else is out of commission, except for Vegeta.

And again, he reverted to his South Kaioshin Buu form, which I'm hoping your not denying exists now, since we have provided an official source saying that he did. The same source says that Pure Buu gained power from absorbing South Kaioshin. So, logically, upon reverting from the South Kaioshin state to his Pure State, he would have lost the power from South Kaioshin. He powered up, and then lost that power.

[Zantetsuken]

He was the strongest...out of everyone still fighting. Everyone else is out of commission, except for Vegeta.

And again, he reverted to his South Kaioshin Buu form, which I'm hoping your not denying exists now, since we have provided an official source saying that he did. The same source says that Pure Buu gained power from absorbing South Kaioshin. So, logically, upon reverting from the South Kaioshin state to his Pure State, he would have lost the power from South Kaioshin. He powered up, and then lost that power.

That's weak reasoning - it's either the statement is true or it's not. You're the one putting conditions on it which weren't originally there. Just as it states that "KidBuu has the most formidable power and ability" I'm guessing that you'll twist it to mean out of FatBuu and himself, right?
And Kaioshinn said he GAINED power after the transformation, not before.

[Kamiccolo9]

He was the strongest...out of everyone still fighting. Everyone else is out of commission, except for Vegeta.

And again, he reverted to his South Kaioshin Buu form, which I'm hoping your not denying exists now, since we have provided an official source saying that he did. The same source says that Pure Buu gained power from absorbing South Kaioshin. So, logically, upon reverting from the South Kaioshin state to his Pure State, he would have lost the power from South Kaioshin. He powered up, and then lost that power.

That's weak reasoning - it's either the statement is true or it's not. You're the one putting conditions on it which weren't originally there. Just as it states that "KidBuu has the most formidable power and ability" I'm guessing that you'll twist it to mean out of FatBuu and himself, right?
And Kaioshinn said he GAINED power after the transformation, not before.

Why would Gohan and Gotenks have anything to do with that statement? It's talking about the fight against Buuhan.

That statement says that Pure Buu is stronger than Buutenks and Buuhan, which directly contradicts the manga, and is therefore wrong. There's not really any grey area here. Buutenks flat out says that he is the strongest Majin.

Provide a quote for that please.

[hleV]

It's not like the anime itself didn't imply that Pure Boo was the strongest (making Goku stronger than the previous Boo forms as well), so even if an anime-based guidebook suggested the same (not saying it did), it wouldn't count for much.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

"Refers to Super Saiyan 3 as “the Super Saiyan that can appropriately be called strongest”. From the third TV Animation daizenshuu."

It's only saying that Super Saiyan 3 is the strongest Super Saiyan form. Except if you believe that SS3 Gotenks is stronger than U. Gohan, and that SS3 Goku & SS3 Gotenks are stronger than SS Vegetto.