Start with Z or the Beginning

[Ajay]

Okay? That doesn't mean anything. It's still an international show that's had success elsewhere.

I already explained in a prior post as to why DBZ and Kai both ensure DB isn't a must watch. There's no debate there. It does, it exists, it explains.

I'm not in the line of thinking that it's the best way to enjoy the franchise, it's just a perfectly viable way.

[TheGmGoken]

Okay? That doesn't mean anything. It's still an international show that's had success elsewhere.

I already explained in a prior post as to why DBZ and Kai both ensure DB isn't a must watch. There's no debate there. It does, it exists, it explains.

I'm not in the line of thinking that it's the best way to enjoy the franchise, it's just a perfectly viable way.

DBZ doesn't ensures it. Maybe Kai. Since Kai kinda acts like a sequel but as you said teaches the New generation some things. DBZ doesn't do that as DBZ acts like a sequel. What do you mean it exists? I never said it didn't.

[Ajay]

But it doesn't exist as a sequel.

For the same reasons I've already listed in a prior post. It makes every effort to recap (in depth) every vital link DB has with Z. When I say 'it exists', I'm talking about those recaps.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue in circles with you. I've made my point, if you disagree, that's fine.

[TheGmGoken]

But it doesn't exist as a sequel.

For the same reasons I've already listed in a prior post. It makes every effort to recap (in depth) every vital link DB has with Z. When I say 'it exists', I'm talking about those recaps.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue in circles with you. I've made my point, if you disagree, that's fine.

So you're saying Z doesn't exist as a sequel but as a recap and make new stories? Ok now you have confused me. Considering the fact that the ending of Dragonball told you to stay tune for more stories in DRAGONBALL Z! That's called a sequel.

[Fionordequester]

But saying "People don't want to watch 120+ episodes" isn't a good excuse.

How? How is that a bad excuse?! It's not their fault that they don't have that kind of time! That's like expecting someone to read "The Iliad" before they read "The Odyssey". I guess it's kind of neat to have extra background on Odysseus and the like, but it's certainly not necessary to reading the Odyssey.

Plus, both of them are MASSIVE books, so to HAVE to read The Iliad before The Odyssey JUST to have more insight on Odysseus himself (even if you're much more interested in The Odyssey than you are in The Iliad)? That seems like a lot to ask out of anyone!!

If you watch a sequel then a prequel that's kinda fucked up IMO. Espeically if the sequel mentions some of the prequel parts.

Not necessarily. I mean, that's how Star Wars was done.

[Ajay]

I'm getting pretty frustrated now. How hard is it to understand my point?

Dragon Ball as a manga is one long running series meant to be enjoyed from start to finish. No need for recap or flashback, it doesn't cater for it. It doesn't need it. It's a single entity meant for one long read.

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are two different shows. Dragon Ball Z is written and directed in a way that ensures every reference to Dragon Ball is thoroughly explained. You can watch Dragon Ball Z without seeing Dragon Ball. The show ensures that that is possible through lengthy recaps and flashbacks. They cover all the vital information in excessive depth. If you check my post that sparked this debate, you'll see I listed a few examples.

Yes, Dragon Ball Z is a sequel to Dragon Ball. Of course it is, never once did I question that. My point is simply that just because it's a sequel, it doesn't mean that its predecessor is a must watch.

Why?

Because of everything I JUST said and have been saying since the start.

I don't claim it's the best way. It's not. I'm simply saying you don't need it to understand what is happening.

[TheGmGoken]

Dragon Ball as a manga is one long running series meant to be enjoyed from start to finish. No need for recap or flashback, it doesn't cater for it. It doesn't need it. It's a single entity meant for one long read.

I never mention the manga. I said DBZ is a sequel because ...hell at the end of Dragonball it was stated to stay tune for DBZ. Which screams sequel. If it doesn't then I don't know what sequels are apparently.

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are two different shows. Dragon Ball Z is written and directed in a way that ensures every reference to Dragon Ball is thoroughly explained. You can watch Dragon Ball Z without seeing Dragon Ball. The show ensures that that is possible through lengthy recaps and flashbacks. They cover all the vital information in excessive depth. If you check my post that sparked this debate, you'll see I listed a few examples.

Isn't that what MOST sequels do anyway. Mention stuff from the past. Of course they are different shows. But they're the same thing just with different names. DBZ doesn't ensures that you don't have to watch DB. It just does what a sequel does. Mention stuff in the past. It continues right where DB off. Yes they have flashback but DBZ flashbacks were use to remind the viewer what happen. Not because a new batch of people are watching it.

Yes, Dragon Ball Z is a sequel to Dragon Ball. Of course it is, never once did I question that. My point is simply that just because it's a sequel, it doesn't mean that its predecessor is a must watch.

I NEVER said it was a must watch. I just gave my reasons to why you SHOULD watch it first.

I don't claim it's the best way. It's not. I'm simply saying you don't need it to understand what is happening.

I never said you claim anything. I was just saying that you should watch Dragonball first to understand the characters better and so you can see the moment rather than hearing about it.

[Gaffer Tape]

Okay, I've been reading this thread (even contributed to it at some point ), and what's really annoying me about both sides of this argument is that the pre-Z era is being treated as important only in relation to Z, with Z being the main, important part of the story. Now, I can understand that mindset coming from the detractors who unfathomably believe the series didn't get good until Piccolo, but for the guys arguing in favor of starting from the beginning, how about trying a new tactic? Instead of talking about how much more the events in Z matter if you see the original first, that they're a required history lesson for the real meat and potatoes that is Z, why don't we just say that the pre-Z events are enjoyable and fulfilling all on their own? That they're worth seeing/reading just because they're good? That some people even find those early stories largely superior to what came after it? To those who argue there's just not enough time to catch people up on 153 episodes before getting to Z, did it ever occur to you that maybe there are even some people whose tastes would lead them to see the early stories as more important and *gasp* not want to continue following the series past Goku's marriage?

[Saiga]

People already have said that, and I think the main idea behind everyone focusing on talking about Z is this - if someone is going to prefer Dragon Ball pre-Z, I think the answer of what to start with becomes pretty obvious. It's clearly Evolution, because fuck those guys Whereas, if someone is going to prefer Z, or is more interested in the series because of Z, there's a legitimate question as to whether that person should start with Z, or the beginning.

I don't know what I'd recommend. I think the Z anime is godawful, so I guess I'd just tell people to read the manga. And Viz's Z isn't as good a starting point as the anime Z because it doesn't have the flashbacks to explain everything. But there isn't a whooooole lot that needs explaining from DB, so it'd probably still work.

[ABED]

Okay, I've been reading this thread (even contributed to it at some point ), and what's really annoying me about both sides of this argument is that the pre-Z era is being treated as important only in relation to Z, with Z being the main, important part of the story. Now, I can understand that mindset coming from the detractors who unfathomably believe the series didn't get good until Piccolo, but for the guys arguing in favor of starting from the beginning, how about trying a new tactic? Instead of talking about how much more the events in Z matter if you see the original first, that they're a required history lesson for the real meat and potatoes that is Z, why don't we just say that the pre-Z events are enjoyable and fulfilling all on their own? That they're worth seeing/reading just because they're good? That some people even find those early stories largely superior to what came after it? To those who argue there's just not enough time to catch people up on 153 episodes before getting to Z, did it ever occur to you that maybe there are even some people whose tastes would lead them to see the early stories as more important and *gasp* not want to continue following the series past Goku's marriage?

I concur wholeheartedly. Dragon Ball is something to be savored, not because of its plots, but because of the world, the sense of life, fun, humor, and fights which I think are better in Dragon Ball. DBZ is still good, but after the Vegeta arc, maybe the Freeza arc, it's like Toriyama didn't know how to use any character that wasn't a Saiyan.

Piccolo's isn't as compelling because all you do is hear about his evil years, you don't see them, hence why it's not as compelling.

None of the development in Z is deep or compelling either in my opinion; Dragon Ball is not really the series that thrives on great writing.

I meant emotionally compelling.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Anyway, my point is this: It's far better to start with Dragon Ball, but if someone wants to skip it and start with Dragon Ball Z or Dragon Ball Kai, it's not a bad choice either, because they will not have many questions about what happens.

Krillin used dirty attacks on Jackie Chun, Fan service Bulma, and I don't really remember him in Baba arc(sorry). The second Tenkaichi Budokai arc that all stopped.

That doesn't make him an asshole. He was an asshole when he was trying to come on top of Goku by dirty ways, but they turned into best friends after that.

If you watch a sequel then a prequel that's kinda fucked up IMO. Espeically if the sequel mentions some of the prequel parts.

Not necessarily. I mean, that's how Star Wars was done.

And the Bardock TV Special.

[ABED]

Not necessarily. I mean, that's how Star Wars was done.

That's completely different. If you watch all 6 films starting with the prequel trilogy, it doesn't have the maximum effect. Granted, the reveal at the end of Empire is common knowledge but things like that and the ironic aspects of the prequel trilogy only work if you watch the original trilogy first. Star Wars wasn't produced in order, Dragon Ball was, that's a huge difference.