Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kakashi]

Eh. Updated Goten and Trunks.

Still too low. SSjins kids >>> Android 18

[Kamiccolo9]

The fuck is an "ooibiin"? And what does "as thst time line" mean?

Show me where then. I must have missed that one scene where Slug pulled out a scouter, scanned Goku, and said "your battle power is 90,000".

I guess M2 Goku being the one who fought Vegeta is an opinion. M1 Goku being the one eho fought Raditz is an opinion as well. M4 Goku is based on the one who fought Ginyu and that Goku was 90,000. The movie came out before Goku was healed. He is based on his Freeza arc in M5. My "opinion" is backed up

You seriously need to stop with this. Remember this quote? It wasn't that long ago, but you seem to have forgotten.

. The "movie characters line up with series ones" is an easy way of doing things, but it's not a fact unless the movie says it is. There's nothing wrong with seeing things that way and it may very well be the optimal option, but people don't HAVE to see it that way if they don't want to.

Seriously. Stop it. You are honestly just shouting into the wind with your hands covering your ears at this point, and no one will ever care what your opinion is if you keep spouting it off as fact.

[Vice]

Still too low. SSjins kids >>> Android 18

Uh, the fuck? I have them > Android 18

[RandomGuy96]

He has Goten and Trunks being half the strength of their fathers, which is a good placement for them all things considered. But there are still a lot of weird things on that list; like the unusually tiny gap between 16 and 17, between Gohan and Super Buu, between Goku and Gohan at the Cell Games, having Super Buu stronger than Gotenks, having Tenshinhan stronger than Krillin...

[Kakashi]

Garlic Jr power level in the movie

[Vice]

But there are still a lot of weird things on that list; like the unusually tiny gap between 16 and 17

Almost 100,000,000 difference. Not exactly "tiny".

between Gohan and Super Buu

Again, 100,000,000,000 difference. How is that tiny?

between Goku and Gohan at the Cell Games

Meh.

having Super Buu stronger than Gotenks

Buu stated that only Gohan had surpassed him. I should probably make Gotenks stronger though.

having Tenshinhan stronger than Krillin...

Meh.

[Kakashi]

But there are still a lot of weird things on that list; like the unusually tiny gap between 16 and 17

Almost 100,000,000 difference. Not exactly "tiny".

between Gohan and Super Buu

Again, 100,000,000,000 difference. How is that tiny?

between Goku and Gohan at the Cell Games

Meh.

having Super Buu stronger than Gotenks

Buu stated that only Gohan had surpassed him. I should probably make Gotenks stronger though.

having Tenshinhan stronger than Krillin...

Meh.

That is not how difference works. It comes to ratios and precentages

[Vice]

That is not how difference works. It comes to ratios and precentages

What are the ratios and percentages?

[Kaboom]

He means the relative differences between powers, not an absolute one. For example, there's a roughly 20% difference between Raditz at 1500 and a Saibaiman at 1200, and the same 20% difference between Super Saiyan Goku at 150 million and full-power Freeza at 120 million. Even though one is a difference of 300 "points" and the other is a difference of thirty million points, the scale between each fighter is the same.

So obviously if <insert power levels enthusiast fan here> doesn't think your power gaps/percentages/ratios are accurate enough for him, then your numbers are "wrong" and full of fail. Clearly.

[Kakashi]

I honsetly can't see Android 16 below 1 billion. What d you think?

[RandomGuy96]

I have him at 480 million. The amplification issue isn't nearly as cut and dried as you try to make it.

[Kaboom]

A solid 480 million for me, and Stage-1 Cell capping out at 500. A hefty amount above Android 17 at 360 and Piccolo at 380.

I've ended up tweaking my list as a whole again, and I've only got a few last touches to make before I post it again.

[Saiga]

Kaboom, what page is your most recent list on? I think maybe an index in the first post for a lot of these might be nice.

[Kaboom]

Kaboom, what page is your most recent list on? I think maybe an index in the first post for a lot of these might be nice.

I dunno, this thread moves too fast. Since I'm starting to just make, host, and link to a .htm page instead of posting them directly in the thread, I might just keep a link to them in my signature after this.

[Saiga]

Kaboom, what page is your most recent list on? I think maybe an index in the first post for a lot of these might be nice.

I dunno, this thread moves too fast. Since I'm starting to just make, host, and link to a .htm page instead of posting them directly in the thread, I might just keep a link to them in my signature after this.

Oh, do you have that .htm page handy?

[RandomGuy96]

But there are still a lot of weird things on that list; like the unusually tiny gap between 16 and 17

Almost 100,000,000 difference. Not exactly "tiny".

between Gohan and Super Buu

Again, 100,000,000,000 difference. How is that tiny?

between Goku and Gohan at the Cell Games

Meh.

having Super Buu stronger than Gotenks

Buu stated that only Gohan had surpassed him. I should probably make Gotenks stronger though.

having Tenshinhan stronger than Krillin...

Meh.

1. As said, it comes down to percentages and ratios, not flat numbers. I think that the gap between 16 and 17 is too small because Cell was able to tank Kamiccolo's strongest attack like nothing and beat him with one punch. Monstrous advantage there.

2. Same. For Gohan to smash around Super Buu effortlessly the way he did, I figure that he'd have to be a lot stronger than him.

3. Goku was at a pretty noticeable disadvantage against suppressed Cell. He had to be very careful to avoid taking hits, couldn't hit Cell a lot of the time, and admitted that he couldn't win. This same version of Cell couldn't even touch Gohan. He had to power up and use his true speed just to catch him. And even after he did that, he wasn't able to inflict any significant damage on Gohan.

4. But we actually SAW Gotenks kick Buu around the landscape pretty easily.

5. Toriyama said Krillin was the strongest Earthling, so...

[Kakashi]

I have him at 480 million. The amplification issue isn't nearly as cut and dried as you try to make it.

Piccolo says Goku's KHH vastly improved since the Saiyan Saga so Piccolo's blast is at least 3x amplified. Even without that, Android 16 can't be that low. Androids Saga Goku >> Sick Goku >> Yardat Goku > Future Trunks > Namek Goku

[Vice]

Is there a commonly used list of accepted ratio/percentages?

And yes, indexing on the first page would be pretty fantastic.

[Kaboom]

Oh, do you have that .htm page handy?

Yeah, but I'd rather hold off and just post the updated version within the next day or two though.

Is there a commonly used list of accepted ratio/percentages?

Nope, and that's not something you need or want to worry too much about. The official numbers and even the numbers from the manga were never strict about what can or can't be done at certain power gaps, so don't let anyone tell you "have to" give a character some 1-point-whatever times advantage over someone else for something.

[Kamiccolo9]

I'm not really interested in a number, but where do you all place Super Uub in comparison to the other GT characters?