Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

[AgitoZ]

People are satisfied and so it'll continue to be profitable.

More like it's cheaper to make and a cheap buy to the consumer so it'll continue to be profitable.

[rereboy]

They're legitimate reviews. You don't have to own the sets

Nope. Someone can't review something unless he/she has experienced it in full. I can't review a movie unless I experience the full movie, seeing 10 mins of it or its trailer is simply not enough. A DVD/Bluray release is the same thing, you have to actually experience the DVDs/Blurays in full.

Your logic makes zero sense.

We have the facts laid out. We have the screenshots RIGHT here. Lossless .tiff images that accurately display how this set looks.

It's not like this is just opinions formed on zero evidence. I don't need to own the damn sets to see exactly what their flaws are.

It's not like we're reviewing the quality of a movie. We all know exactly what the show is like. We're reviewing the way they've handled the product and that is evidently clear.

You can take one look at Disney's Blu-ray of The Sword in the Stone and notice how garbage it looks and how it's been denoised to shit. Do I need the disc right in front of me to see that?

Of course not. What a stupid assertion. The same applies right here.

Right, they will have a perfectly correct review just by seeing screenshots and trailers... Are you for real? Screenshots and trailers can already be indicative of something they they don't like, but unless they experience the DVDs/Blurays first hand in full, their review will never be correct because, if they had, they might have thought that the release was even worse than they thought or better than they thought... they simply don't know because all they saw were screenshots, trailers and specs.

I can watch a trailer of a movie or a trailer for a bluray release and I can tell, from its contents, that I probably won't like it or that I'll probably like it, because its already somewhat indicative and I might immediately dislike something or that I immediately like something... But can I really review it based on that? Nope. I can't ever have a definite opinion unless I experience it firsthand in full.

[Ajay]

Right.

Well, I'm sure I'll come back when the set arrives with a totally changed opinion.

Yeah, I'll just get over that crop, the butchered backgrounds and smeary DNR and everything will be hunky dory.

See you guys soon then with my new found opinions!

[rereboy]

Right.

Well, I'm sure I'll come back when the set arrives with a totally changed opinion.

Yeah, I'll just get over that crop, the butchered backgrounds and smeary DNR and everything will be hunky dory.

See you guys soon then with my new found opinions!

You aren't listening are you? Nobody is saying that your opinion will change. Most of the time, our opinion of a movie doesn't change significantly after we watch it compared to the opinion we expected to have of it from the trailer. But that's just it. From the trailer and whatnot, we just have a expectation. We haven't even experienced the full product yet.

And you are arguing that its perfectly reasonable to review something purely based on that expectation and not our definite opinion after we experienced it?

Sorry, but that's just wrong. That's not a review as in "I'm knowledgeable regarding this product because I've experienced it firsthand and in full and this is my opinion", that is just saying "yeah, I saw the trailers for it and I've checked screenshots for it, and the specs of the product and whatnot and I fully expect this product to be sucky even though I actually haven't experienced it". That's not a review.

[Ajay]

You aren't listening are you? Nobody is saying that your opinion will change. Most of the time, our opinion of a movie doesn't change significantly after we watch it compared to the opinion we expected to have of it from the trailer. But that's just it. From the trailer and whatnot, we just have a expectation. We haven't even experienced the full product yet. And you are arguing that its perfectly reasonable to review something purely based on that expectation and not our definite opinion after we experienced it? Sorry, but that's just wrong.

No your point is based around the way we review film - story, characters etc. This product and those reviews are based purely on visuals. Visuals that are freely available in a lossless format that is no different to what I will see on the Blu-Ray.

I drag that screenshot onto my third monitor (42" TV) and boom! There's the blu-ray I'll be receiving! The evidence is right there for me. We've got other members of the forums showing evidence of smearing from the automated DNR process. More visual evidence.

It's beyond a preview at this point. It's an educated opinion based on all the evidence that's been given to us from both Funimation and users on here.

Seeing that Blu-Ray move isn't going to change a thing.

I understand what you're saying and I would wholeheartedly agree if these were reviews for the quality of the actual media and not the way it's presented. For the sake of judging visual fidelity, the evidence is very clear.

[Adamant]

If you consider cropping a 4:3 image to 16:9 a negative (which you should), you don't have to buy every single cropped-to-16:9 release of every single 4:3 video that exists in order to say these releases are flawed in that way. It's not like they might magically become uncropped when you hold the discs in your hand.

[Kuwabara]

It's not like they magically become uncropped when you hold the discs in your hand.

Oh, if only...

[rereboy]

No your point is based around the way we review film - story, characters etc. This product and those reviews are based purely on visuals. Visuals that are freely available in a lossless format that is no different to what I will see on the Blu-Ray.

I drag that screenshot onto my third monitor (42" TV) and boom! There's the blu-ray I'll be receiving! The evidence is right there for me. We've got other members of the forums showing evidence of smearing from the automated DNR process. More visual evidence.

It's beyond a preview at this point. It's an educated opinion based on all the evidence that's been given to us from both Funimation and users on here.

Seeing that Blu-Ray move isn't going to change a thing.

I understand what you're saying and I would wholeheartedly agree if these were reviews for the quality of the actual media and not the way it's presented. For the sake of judging visual fidelity, the evidence is very clear.

It seems that you are saying that a person can have in trailers over the internet and in screenshots over the internet the same exact visual and audio experience that the same person will have with the product itself playing on the bluray player and on the TV.

Sorry, but that's not true. And what you stated was my point, was not my point, so I guess you really weren't listening.

A person will have a expectation regarding that video and audio quality based on those trailers and screenshots but only by experiencing it, will the person form its definite opinion. It could even be worse than the person thought for all the person knows if she/he doesn't experience it, there could be entire sections of the blurays with even worse quality than what was shown, or it could be better, or it could be exactly equal to the person's expectation.

The person can very well expect something from those trailers and whatnot, and that person can state why she/he sees no interest in getting the product based on what she/he has seen of it... But review it? Like I said, that's not what a review is.

[Ajay]

It seems that you are saying that a person can have in trailers over the internet and in screenshots over the internet the same exact visual and audio experience that the same person will have with the product itself playing on the bluray player and on the TV.

Sorry, but that's not true. And that was not my point, so I guess you really weren't listening.

A person will have a expectation regarding that quality based on those trailers and screenshots but only by experiencing it, will the person form its definite opinion. It could even be worse than the person thought for all the person knows if she doesn't experiences it, there could be entire sections of the blurays with even worse quality than what was shown, or it could be better, or it could be exactly equal to the person's expectation.

The person can very well expect something from those trailers and whatnot, and that person can state why she/he sees no interest in getting the product based on what she/he has seen of it... But review it? Like I said, that's not what a review is.

Cut the condescending attitude.

I'm not implying a horribly compressed trailer is the same experience. Never once have I implied that. It's the reason I made a damn point to say lossless screenshots. I'm not going to make judgements from JPEGs or any type of lossless media. That would be totally aimless and downright stupid.

There's a big difference between a review that someone like Blu-Ray.com posts; a technical breakdown of the entire product, and an Amazon overview review.

[rereboy]

I'm not being condescending at all. I replied to you normally, making the obvious statement that a person who hasn't experienced the product properly (as in first hand and in full) can't really make a proper review, only state their expectations for the product, even if they really don't think that their opinion will change. I think that's something anyone can agree on, a very simple and straightforward notion.

So, if most reviews on amazon aren't like that, they aren't proper reviews.

But, for some reason, you are disagreeing with this... You even basically stated that having lossless screenshots is the same thing than knowing the video quality of the release (even though a screenshot is a different experience than the actual video running), and even replied saying, ironically, that you will change your opinion once you experience it... Like that's what I was saying was going to happen...

Look, my whole intervention in the topic was only to point out that very obvious notion that you seemed to be missing, not to start a debate. If you really can't see it, there's nothing more to discuss...

[Ajay]

You're being condescending when you continually say things like 'I guess you weren't really listening'. That's just plain rude.

Look, I don't disagree with you when you say that so-called proper reviews can't be written without actually going through the product with a fine tooth comb. As a critic myself, I'm fully aware of that.

My issue was with dbboxkaifan insinuating that the blanket statements and facts about the product on Amazon were somehow 'fake' or illegitimate. As far as I'm concerned, they're perfectly accurate and representative for the quality of the product since, as we've seen from evidence on here and on sites like Blu-Ray.com, what they say is very true.

That irony you speak of was pure sarcasm. Perhaps that doesn't translate well over text.

Anyway, I feel like this is boiling down to the legitimacy of Amazon reviews. So sure, I'll leave it at that.

[rereboy]

You're being condescending when you continually say things like 'I guess you weren't really listening'. That's just plain rude.

I stated that because it seemed to me that you weren't understanding what I was saying, and I believe I stated what I meant clearly enough. Since you later stated something other than my exact and actual point as my point, I don't believe I did anything wrong in asking you if you were really listening, or in this case reading.

Look, I don't disagree with you when you say that so-called proper reviews can't be written without actually going through the product with a fine tooth comb. As a critic myself, I'm fully aware of that.

My issue was with dbboxkaifan insinuating that the blanket statements and facts about the product on Amazon were somehow 'fake' or illegitimate. As far as I'm concerned, they're perfectly accurate and representative for the quality of the product since, as we've seen from evidence on here and on sites like Blu-Ray.com, what they say is very true.

That irony you speak of was pure sarcasm. Perhaps that doesn't translate well over text.

Anyway, I feel like this is boiling down to the legitimacy of Amazon reviews. So sure, I'll leave it at that.

It seems to me that dbboxkaifan has a perfectly valid reason to call those reviews illegitimate if they aren't proper reviews from people who have actually experienced the Blurays.

Perhaps it would be better if you just stated that you think they are correct about the quality of the product and that they are legitimate complaints about the release, instead of trying to argue that they are somehow legitimate reviews.

[TripleRach]

It seems to me that dbboxkaifan has a perfectly valid reason to call those reviews illegitimate if they aren't proper reviews from people who have actually experienced the Blurays.

Perhaps it would be better if you just stated that you think they are correct about the quality of the product and that they are legitimate complaints about the release, instead of trying to argue that they are somehow legitimate reviews.

This whole discussion boils down to what one considers a "legitimate" review, and it's turning into semantics and circular arguments.

Also, Amazon didn't have discussion forums for a long time, so people traditionally discussed product information as reviews (especially before release dates). I wouldn't say those are proper reviews, but I also wouldn't use words like "fake" or "illegitimate" if the facts and information in them are accurate, because "fake review" has a much different meaning. It's very common for "fake review" to refer to a review filled with lies or written by someone who secretly works for FUNimation (or another relevant company). Those type of things are pretty common in theory now that people have internet anonymity, so Gen Fukunaga could disguise himself as PiccoloFan35 or something.

[Dalesy]

You're being condescending when you continually say things like 'I guess you weren't really listening'. That's just plain rude.

I stated that because it seemed to me that you weren't understanding what I was saying, and I believe I stated what I meant clearly enough. Since you later stated something other than my exact and actual point as my point, I don't believe I did anything wrong in asking you if you were really listening, or in this case reading.

Look, I don't disagree with you when you say that so-called proper reviews can't be written without actually going through the product with a fine tooth comb. As a critic myself, I'm fully aware of that.

My issue was with dbboxkaifan insinuating that the blanket statements and facts about the product on Amazon were somehow 'fake' or illegitimate. As far as I'm concerned, they're perfectly accurate and representative for the quality of the product since, as we've seen from evidence on here and on sites like Blu-Ray.com, what they say is very true.

That irony you speak of was pure sarcasm. Perhaps that doesn't translate well over text.

Anyway, I feel like this is boiling down to the legitimacy of Amazon reviews. So sure, I'll leave it at that.

It seems to me that dbboxkaifan has a perfectly valid reason to call those reviews illegitimate if they aren't proper reviews from people who have actually experienced the Blurays.

Perhaps it would be better if you just stated that you think they are correct about the quality of the product and that they are legitimate complaints about the release, instead of trying to argue that they are somehow legitimate reviews.

This release's quality and value is predicated entirely upon the video and audio quality. You can watch all of DBZ online if you wanted to, there's literally no barrier to entry for watching the series. What a consumer should be concerned with in a set like this is video quality and audio fidelity. I won't speak to the audio, but it's clear to see from the screenshots posted that this set is downright atrocious when it comes to video. You don't need to see every frame contained on the Blu-Ray to be able to ascertain that the quality is utter shit. The art is smeared, details are destroyed, the line work has ghosting issues, the skin tones are bleached, the colors are grossly oversaturated, and the cropping (however selective it may be) still cuts off a huge amount of picture.

You also seem to completely misunderstand what a lossless image is. There is absolutely no difference in quality between the image and the Blu-Ray. It doesn't matter whether that image is presented as one of many frames of an m2ts file, or as a single still uploaded to an image host. They're the same quality. Those screens are absolutely representative of the final product.

To suggest repeatedly and without argument that you can only do a proper review if you actually own the product only demonstrates that you really don't have any logical reasoning to support that claim. When the review is entirely predicated on video quality and there are numerous lossless images that demonstrate the issues that plague this release, you don't need to own the Blu-Ray.

I would be able to see where you were coming from had these reviews been about audio quality, packaging, or any other aspect of the release that has yet to be publicly exhibited in a meaningful way. However, they're not. They're about the horrendous alterations made to the video.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Yet most them so "called" reviews are just bitching about the stupid aspect ratio, hardly any of them are mentioning the video quality, so yes they are illegitimate.

[Ajay]

Yet most them so "called" reviews are just bitching about the stupid aspect ratio, hardly any of them are mentioning the video quality, so yes they are illegitimate.

...

Implying aspect ratio has nothing to do with the video.

[Dalesy]

Yet most them so "called" reviews are just bitching about the stupid aspect ratio, hardly any of them are mentioning the video quality, so yes they are illegitimate.

...what? How is a complaint about a legitimate issue like cropping "bitching"? That, even more so than the complaints about video quality, is a perfectly legitimate point of complaint for someone who doesn't own the sets. It's right there in the specs that the footage is cropped.

[VegettoEX]

Yet most them so "called" reviews are just bitching about the stupid aspect ratio, hardly any of them are mentioning the video quality, so yes they are illegitimate.

I think you meant to write:

so called "reviews"

... specifically with "reviews" in quotes as such, because that's the word you're trying to dismiss away in a perjorative/sarcastic way. I say this because if you can't get your point across correctly, you're going to run into problems having a legitimate conversation with people. And you are.

Furthermore, I'll echo what everyone just said after you: it's a legitimate point to make that is simultaneously a legitimate selling point AND turn-off to different types of people. You can't be upset if a rock album is labeled as a rock album instead of just "MUSIC", and then both people who like rock music tout that as a positive while people who dislike rock music are upset with it, or then people who liked the artist before they perhaps made a change from one style of music to another want to point out the change. (Let's pretend it's a Garth-Brooks-turned-Chris-Gaines album, or something.)

Everyone else, knock off the bullshit. There are certain folks responding who like to complain about rude responses, and even submit reports on rude responses, and somehow think they're above it themselves. You're not. Make the valid, polite, respectable contributions you so constantly whine about wanting, or don't get upset when you find yourselves without an active account. Kick off the new year with style as an absolutely awesome person, not with completely embarrassing revoked Kanzenshuu access.

[Dalesy]

Everyone else, knock off the bullshit. There are certain folks responding who like to complain about rude responses, and even submit reports on rude responses, and somehow think they're above it themselves. You're not. Make the valid, polite, respectable contributions you so constantly whine about wanting, or don't get upset when you find yourselves without an active account..

That's downright ironic. You make a statement asking others to stop being rude, and then characterize those same people as constantly whining.

[VegettoEX]

That's downright ironic. You make a statement asking others to stop being rude, and then characterize those same people as constantly whining.

I can tell by your response that you took this personally. That's good, because you probably should. There are a couple of you that I get quite a few tweets from, read other public tweets from, and get reports here on the forum from that yearn for the worthwhile/thoughtful/engaging/polite responses, and I'm really disappointed - even after a few verbal warnings - to see you start bordering on the other side of what you're trying to advocate for.

So yes, you should be taking it personally, perhaps finding some irony in it, and working to strive for more.