"Explain why DBZ is bad."

[TheGmGoken]

Being aimed at five-year-olds does not excuse abysmal writing quality.

You're hitting a dead end and haven't elborated why anything you've said points to the series being "abysmal."

Have you not read the very first post in this topic?

Yup. And my reaction that that is merely what Kaboom said and you can just read the post I just made. Pretty much sums up my opinion on this "pointless"(As Kaboom said)" topic.

[Kaboom]

Then why is is that some shows are mostly loved by critics, and some shows are mostly hated by critics if it's all subjective?

Because critics are people too. People with different tastes and standards.

Obviously, there are objective qualities that can be considered while reviewing a show. Not every single thing about shows are subjective.

Not everything, but some things. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Kid Buu]

A lot of critics are actually paid by people to give them good reviews anyway. I couldn't provide you a source, but its definitely what I've been told by industry insiders.

[Saiga]

I would say that everything that relates to it being "good" or "bad" are subjective, while things like "the author placed a theme of friendship" are objective... although I guess even that could be subjective to some enthusiasts who like to draw their own themes from it.

[TheGmGoken]

A lot of critics are actually paid by people to give them good reviews anyway. I couldn't provide you a source, but its definitely what I've been told by industry insiders.

Actually this is quite true. A lot of interviewers do this as well. With questions being asked to make the person look bad or Good. Funny how money controls the world. Miss the old days where food was money.

[Looneygamemaster]

I'll try to go over the points:

A repetitive, overly simplistic story

Dragon Ball never trys to be Hugo or Melville--its goal is to be a charming bit of escapism. A bit mindless and simple, yes, but repetitive? I think Toriyama was quite good at differentiating one story or fight from the next.

Characters range from being one-dimensional to two-dimensional

Again, Dragon Ball never tries to be deep, so it doesn't necessarily need complex characters. All they need is to be believable.

Making everyone who isn't a Saiyan useless

Yeah, I'll give you that one.

Plot holes and inconsistencies

Plot holes don't necessarily make a work bad, only when they're jarring enough to threaten your belief. I found a few of those in DBZ, but apparently not as many as you did, so c'est la vie.

Far too heavy of a reliance on characters making stupid decisions just to move the plot forward

A lot of that stupidity is justified, however. Not all of it, but a lot. Goku's kind of an idiot outside of battle, the Saiyans love to fight and thus ignore reason, Freeza's supreme arrogance blinds him, etc.

Deus Ex Machinas

I didn't find the execution of these bad enough to ruin my believability, but if you did, that's fine.

Death Meaning Nothing

A bit of an issue, yeah, but Toriyama tries his hardest to maintain drama in spite of that. The Dragon Balls do have weaknesses, which is neat. Frankly, I find it better than a lot of other Shonen Fighters where people just don't die no matter what.

Show DBZ to anyone who has studied extensively in the study of quality literature, and they will laugh right in your face.

DBZ isn't literature; it's a TV adaption of a comic book. And here we come to something: you specifically say "DBZ," but your issues extend to Dragon Ball itself. Which is fine, but those issues extend to what Dragon Ball isn't, rather than what it is. Something doesn't have to be deep or meaningful to be good.

I don't think Dragon Ball Z is good--it has atrocious pacing, and as the show goes on, it seems to lose interest in using editing to improve what it's showing (heck, because of that, a lof of the fights aren't even that good). But the thing is, a majority of it doesn't seem to be interested in being good; like so many Shonen Fighter adaptations, it's content to just go along for half an hour to cash in on what it's adapting. Which is annoying, but makes criticizing it seem...kind of pointless. At least, to me.

[RandomGuy96]

Last I checked DBZ was widely considered to be the greatest anime/action cartoon of all time.

By who? 5-year-olds?

By the fan base of all ages that has made it a worldwide phenomenon? That has kept it as a humongous cash cow nearly twenty years after it ended?

Breaking Bad is objectively good.
Avatar: TLA is objectively good.
Batman: TAS is objectively good.

No, they're not. It is impossible for a piece of entertainment to be objectively good. It CAN be "objectively successful" or "objectively widely praised", but never "objectively good" or "objectively bad". There's no point in even discussing this until you realize that.

The glorious almighty Breaking Bad has its goof-ups here and there too

Nitpick on that list: police and criminal accuracy really is that bad. I can cite about a dozen shoot-outs where hundreds or thousands of rounds were expended from handguns and automatic weapons and no one was hit.

[Vice]

I can agree with most of your opinions presented, but I don't think DBZ is meant to be taken too seriously.

[UpFromTheSkies]

If you judge the series for what it's meant to be, which is a fun action-comedy series made for kids and teens, it's a great series. But if you hold it up against series with a serious, complex plot, and heavy character development, then sure it's going to fall short. But that's like comparing a pop song to Beethoven's 5th symphony...

So basically, I shouldn't expect DBZ to be good.

If you judge it by what it isn't meant to be, a serious series with heavy character development, then no, you shouldn't expect it to be very good, you should expect it to be terrible. But Dragon Ball isn't meant to be serious, it's fun and light-hearted, and when you judge it as a series that is fun, lighthearted and action packed, and not meant to be taken seriously, then it's very good.

A fish is a horrible at climbing trees, but it's a great swimmer.

[Black_Liger]

Dragon ball z fan explains why Dragon ball z is bad.

Seems legit.

[TheGmGoken]

Dragon ball z fan explains why Dragon ball z is bad.

Seems legit.

ThatDBZGUY said he's ashamed that he likes DBZ because it's so god awful. Doesn't seem like a fan to me.....

[UpFromTheSkies]

Dragon ball z fan explains why Dragon ball z is bad.

Seems legit.

ThatDBZGUY said he's ashamed that he likes DBZ because it's so god awful. Doesn't seem like a fan to me.....

It sounds to me like he takes himself, and other people, far too seriously. Maybe he should pay closer attention to Goku, he might learn something.

[thatdbzguy]

I can agree with most of your opinions presented, but I don't think DBZ is meant to be taken too seriously.

That's not a very good excuse.

[TheGmGoken]

I can agree with most of your opinions presented, but I don't think DBZ is meant to be taken too seriously.

That's not a very good excuse.

Answer this please. Everyone on the internet apparently hate DBZ according to you( ) . Explain why everyone was so pumped for BoG and how well the BoG sales went. Why is DB heroes so popular? Why do everyone want new series? Why say only 5 year watch DBZ yet some how this website is full of grown men who LOVE DBZ and perhaps think it's the best anime ever. Why do many people Above 5 years old love dbz?

Why do a lot of people always say something similar to this?

By anime-life I mean the following:
Did it cause you to watch other anime or read manga?
Make you prefer a type of anime-manga
Plot of an anime - manga
Other - Your choice and explanations.

Okay part 3 of my studies that I'm doing for school(Summer project every student have to do. That's why I've made topics like this.).

DB isn't the first anime I've watched but it is the first anime that I LOVED. THat's with shows like YYHS, Cowboy bebop, Astro Boy, Barefoot, and Inyusha. All bootleg . Anyways something about dbz that I felt that made me really love it compared to the other anime my brother got me at the time. This manga-anime series got me into anime deeper than ever before

DB caused me to prefer Adventure styled stories and DBZ got me hooked on super natural styled. Cause of this DBZ has not been my favorite anime for a long time now. In fact not even in the top ten sadly =(. But I do hold it in a special place as it caused me to love anime-manga. Especially Super Natural and Adventure. The music also made me prefer a mixture of old school and new school.

DBZ made me learn that a plot doesn't have to be super detailed and in depth to be enjoy-able. Some series just can't have a detailed plot and it works really well. I might say better than detailed plots. Imagine if we got Goku saying in his speech "My power has increase 50x. I AM A SSJ! SON GOKU" or Math in every Boo Absorption on how much he increase. Hell imagine if everything those guidebooks have was stated. It would sound to complex and would feel wrong. Freeza: You can't beat me now! My power is at 120 million! Goku: Okay Piccolo. Fusion is A+B - Z = A+B times K - B divided by J. This is why I love that DB-DBZ wasn't all detailed and explained every bit of information possible. Many anime-manga I've read that I prefer over DB are not all that detailed or complex. It' s just a good enough plot that anyone can understand and good action.

I love this series so much. It made me realize what true work is. It's very different from your average day manga-anime. If Nozawa is correct and she is the first women to ever played an adult and kid voice together then I must say. That's unique. People hate on Goku's adult JPN voice but I must say. Great job Akria Toriyama. In most cases the hero wins the big prize. Goku lost twice before winning the budokai. In most cases the hero is the strongest character and it's easy to rank the characters. Not in DBZ! Birsu kicked his ass. Whis kick his ass. Gohan can kick his ass. Gotenks can. Piccolo can while he's in base. Not many manga-anime does that.

I'm sorry if I sounded like a little girl screaming for a pop star or a jizzing fanboy . But DBZ though not my favorite manga-anime. Is IMO the KING of all manga-anime. Nothing had such an impact on me that was fictional I just wanted to hear how this series right here impacted your anime-manga life.

I agree with you on this one. I can appreciate a series that has a plot that's not too convoluted and can be enjoyed as is. Dragon Ball tends to be nonsensical most of the time and isn't meant to be taken seriously, and I can appreciate that. I love series that are more in-depth such as Monster or Serial Experiments Lain, but sometimes, you just need that entertainment that doesn't require brain power to enjoy.

Overall, Dragon Ball's plot has allowed me to enjoy simpler plots in an anime or manga along with the more complex and in-depth series.

Why do you say you love the series when you can't say nothing good about it? How about you stop being on a DBZ forum since you hate DBZ soooo much. Why watch it. Why on't you watch anime that "has a plot".

[Vice]

That's not a very good excuse.

I'm not making excuses.

[KentalSSJ6]

Every show and movie in history has flaws in one form or another. There will never be a perfect show or series.

That being said, I still think DBZ is great despite its flaws, no matter how many there are. Even a show widely agreed to be great can be seen as bad if you focus on nothing but the flaws.

Yeah DBZ has flaws large and small but I dont think they ruin the show or classify it as overall bad.

[Saiga]

Every show and movie in history has flaws in one form or another. There will never be a perfect show or series.

That being said, I still think DBZ is great despite its flaws, no matter how many there are. Even a show widely agreed to be great can be seen as bad if you focus on nothing but the flaws.

Yeah DBZ has flaws large and small but I dont think they ruin the show or classify it as overall bad.

Agreed, and this is such a big thing. Any form of entertainment is more than the sum of its flaws. If one person finds a show to be very flawed, they might still think it's better than a less flawed show because it has many more positives about it.

[samuraix123]

While I agree with some of your points but....

Show DBZ to anyone who has studied extensively in the study of quality literature, and they will laugh right in your face.

Why would I do that!? LOL Why would I bring up a cartoon as an example of quality literature? I think the thing they'd be laughing at the most is the fact that were grown men watching cartoons and debating about it. Not saying there's nothing wrong with that considering I'm a fan of animation and I love to see how people draw ect and probably will be to the day I die but everything has it's flaws here and there.
I think what I'm taking from your opinion is this ''You like the series or maybe love it? but you're willing to admit to yourself that it has flaws and it may not be up to your standards of writing and story telling?'' If that's the case then at-least you're honest with yourself. It's like how I love really crappy cheesy movies. I admit they suck compared to something like 2001 a space odyssey, but I still love them.

Since people have been asking me to explain why DBZ is bad, I'm dedicating this topic to doing just that.

I could be wrong but I don't believe you here bud. I've seen nobody anywhere on the internet that is requesting that you or anybody else show them how bad the story is in Dragonball. not saying you're wrong. but I'd love to see some proof of that. I think you just had an intelligent argument to make against the series and decided to share your opinion. Why would people want you to sit down and come up with arguments and destroy something that means so much to them? lol

[Kaboom]

Dragon Ball is a fun, simple action-adventure story about friendship and hard work featuring goofy over-powered characters within fantastic settings in a universe that's almost entirely contained within a gigantic snow-globe.

[RandomGuy96]

It's also a comic book for ten years olds