Is Vegetto the Strongest of Any Anime Characters?

[Cursed Lemon]

I'll just bring up my other post on this subject...

I have always said that the strength of DBZ characters is commendable in the arena of fiction because:

1) They are comparatively "normal" and contained within a humanoid body
2) They are mortal
3) They exist solely in the physical plane (afterlife notwithstanding)
4) Their power is self-generated and relies on common ideas of stamina
5) They use physical force and do not rely on "magic"

Follow these stipulations, and you're going to have a hell of a time finding a character that can put up a fight against SSJ4 Goku.

[KentalSSJ6]

I'll just bring up my other post on this subject...

I have always said that the strength of DBZ characters is commendable in the arena of fiction because:

1) They are comparatively "normal" and contained within a humanoid body
2) They are mortal
3) They exist solely in the physical plane (afterlife notwithstanding)
4) Their power is self-generated and relies on common ideas of stamina
5) They use physical force and do not rely on "magic"

Follow these stipulations, and you're going to have a hell of a time finding a character that can put up a fight against SSJ4 Goku.

Ha, imagine a Kaio-ken X20 SSJ4 Goku with a Spirit Bomb Absorbed.

Omega Shenron what?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Potara earrings would defy that. Anime Buuhan >>> whis and Bills.

LOL. Either one of them could one-shot him.

Oh and also this potara argument is silly. All of the Kaioshins had potara earrings but they were still scared shitless of Beerus. In fact he easily defeated Mr. Buu, and Buuhan is just that exact same character + a bit of extra power and Piccolo, Gohan+Trunks, and Gohan, all of whom Beerus also defeated easily! The Hakaishin could easily just dodge the candy beam, or even fight as a candy since he's stronger than Vegito. Or he could just vaporize all the goo Buu sent to absorb him. Remember the only reason Buu even had a chance to hit Vegito with his beam or absorb him was because Vegito was playing around,if he was serious he could have wiped out Buu before he had the chance to do anything, same as Beerus could.

Size wouldn't make Vegetto more powerful, Super Tengen Toppa is not just huge, his power includes reality warping and stuff like that.

Yeah not to mention if he was that size his body would collapse into a black hole due to his mass, and he wouldn't be able to process signals from his brain to his body in time to even fight.

I doubt Hao would beat Vegito. From what I can remember from SK that most characters were around 22nd Tenkachi Budokai level at best. Won't Vegito just blow up the whole Planet before they can do anything.

Well the thing is that end of series Hao doesn't even have a body, he exists as a spirit merged with the Great Spirit, so blowing up the planet wouldn't do anything to him, and he can steal you soul just by thinking about it.

Anime Buuhan collapses all dimensions and regenerates, it's doubtful and arguable whether Demonbane or STTGL would return from that, Saint Seiya Zues probably would. Or Buuhan simply turns them into whatever object he is capable of creating them into, and absorbs them probably 100% success rate this last one since they don't have those special set of Potara earrings.

Umm you should know that the Saints have complete control of their bodies on a subatomic level and thus they cannot be transmuted or absorbed.

Neither Vegetto's power nor the power of the Spirit Bomb are said to be "purifying" anything. Both are just extraordinarily more powerful than the forms of Majin Boo they faced, enough to vaporize every last molecule.

Well IIRC the Genki Dama is more effective against evil but other than that you're basically right.

Oh and if we're bringing up non-anime contenders, the Doctor with his TARDIS could easily stop Vegito. That little blue box can do anything.

[Hellspawn28]

Seeing that Transformers had several anime shows, Cybertron had Unicron turning into a Multiversal destroying Blackhole from what I can remember. Unicron is like a robot version of Galactus. Even Beerus would piss his pants when he sees him in person.

[RandomGuy96]

Short answer: no. He isn't even the strongest in Dragon Ball.

Long answer: noooooooooooooooo. The Dragon Ball manga's heaviest hitters (i.e. Fusion Saga guys) are at best moderately FTL and have star+ destructive power, but that's it. Anime Dragon Ball is considerably more powerful, with even their relatively weaker characters being able to star bust casually and FAR exceed the speed of light (even ignoring how ridiculously fast ki blasts are portrayed, we have King Kai being unable to follow the movements of Goku and Freeza yet being able to track the Saiyan pods), and their strongest being able to destroy a universe, but ONLY via a chain reaction. In raw destructive power, even Anime Dragon Ball tops out at solar system level.

This means precisely dickshit to the literally thousands of nigh-omnipotents throughout popular culture. Many have already been brought up; a lot of them can sneeze and wipe out the whole Dragon Ball multiverse. Literally.

[Friezacooler]

Short answer: no. He isn't even the strongest in Dragon Ball.

Long answer: noooooooooooooooo. The Dragon Ball manga's heaviest hitters (i.e. Fusion Saga guys) are at best moderately FTL and have star+ destructive power, but that's it. Anime Dragon Ball is considerably more powerful, with even their relatively weaker characters being able to star bust casually and FAR exceed the speed of light (even ignoring how ridiculously fast ki blasts are portrayed, we have King Kai being unable to follow the movements of Goku and Freeza yet being able to track the Saiyan pods), and their strongest being able to destroy a universe, but ONLY via a chain reaction. In raw destructive power, even Anime Dragon Ball tops out at solar system level.

This means precisely dickshit to the literally thousands of nigh-omnipotents throughout popular culture. Many have already been brought up; a lot of them can sneeze and wipe out the whole Dragon Ball multiverse. Literally.

Let me quess, 12 universes with each universe having multiple realms, dimensions, and alternate verses, connected with other anime characters that had comeo's in the early manga, including Dragonball online etc. I am sure Dragonball has characters that could hold their own against other verses lol

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Gogeta isn't Goku.

He is... kinda.

You're literally saying that Goku is Vegeta.

And... how exactly did you came to that conclusion?
Vegetto & Gogeta are officially considered to be forms of Goku & Vegeta.

[rereboy]

And... how exactly did you came to that conclusion?
Vegetto & Gogeta are officially considered to be forms of Goku & Vegeta.

Gogeta and Vegetto is nothing more than Vegeta and Goku teaming up to defeat an opponent in the most effective way possible: fusion.

So saying that Gogeta or Vegetto is a form of Goku is like saying that the Z gang (Tenshinhan, Piccolo, Yamcha, Krillin, Chaotzu, Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Vegeta) is a form of Goku since Goku can team up with them to defeat his opponents.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

And... how exactly did you came to that conclusion?
Vegetto & Gogeta are officially considered to be forms of Goku & Vegeta.

That's like saying that the Z gang is a form of Goku since Goku can team up with them to defeat his opponents.

Explain how what you just said makes sense.

[rereboy]

And... how exactly did you came to that conclusion?
Vegetto & Gogeta are officially considered to be forms of Goku & Vegeta.

That's like saying that the Z gang is a form of Goku since Goku can team up with them to defeat his opponents.

Explain how what you just said makes sense.

Goku and anyone from the Z gang fighting together agaisnt an opponent is basically what Gogeta and Vegetto are. The only difference is that with Gogeta and Vegetto they chose to use fusion in order to be more effective on their team up.

So, if Gogeta is a form of Goku, then Goku fighting alongside Piccolo agaisnt Radditz is a form of Goku. They just didn't combine their efforts via fusion, otherwise its the same thing: Goku teaming up with someone else to fight agaisnt an opponent.

Hence, why it shouldn't really be considered an actual form of Goku. Its something else.

[mmg86]

I'll just bring up my other post on this subject...

I have always said that the strength of DBZ characters is commendable in the arena of fiction because:

1) They are comparatively "normal" and contained within a humanoid body
2) They are mortal
3) They exist solely in the physical plane (afterlife notwithstanding)
4) Their power is self-generated and relies on common ideas of stamina
5) They use physical force and do not rely on "magic"

Follow these stipulations, and you're going to have a hell of a time finding a character that can put up a fight against SSJ4 Goku.

I saw you post that in that other topic, and honestly its interesting. I would like you to clarify all those points a bit though. 1: what do you mean by "normal"? Saying that AND humanoid in the same line makes it sound like "undistinguishable from humans", which SS4 Goku and many other DB characters dont qualify as.

2: which immortals are you disqualifying? Ones that cant die in any way, or just the ones who never age?

3: just making sure, you mean "cant function without a body", correct? No characters that can still function as a disembodied soul or mind?

4: the "common ideas of stamina", what does that mean? What would be an "uncommon idea of stamina"?

5: "magic"? By that you are disqualifying actual magic, or just anything thats not energy blasts and flight?

[Cursed Lemon]

I saw you post that in that other topic, and honestly its interesting. I would like you to clarify all those points a bit though. 1: what do you mean by "normal"? Saying that AND humanoid in the same line makes it sound like "undistinguishable from humans", which SS4 Goku and many other DB characters dont qualify as. Basically what I'm getting at is, characters that don't have seventy limbs, are not the size of skyscrapers (or half the length of the universe - I'm looking at you, Gurren Lagann), don't have blades for arms, etc.

2: which immortals are you disqualifying? Ones that cant die in any way, or just the ones who never age? I'm mostly referring to beings that are indestructible save for one super-niche method of defeating them. Boundless regeneration, ethereal body that can't be physically harmed, that sort of thing. But it also applies to actual gods whose ultimate power has absolutely no conceivable origin.

3: just making sure, you mean "cant function without a body", correct? No characters that can still function as a disembodied soul or mind? Some fictitious characters are able to shift from this reality to that reality, yadda yadda dimension warp whatever. Not really much of a fight when one character has this ability and the other doesn't.

4: the "common ideas of stamina", what does that mean? What would be an "uncommon idea of stamina"? For example, in the Superman vs. Goku debate, Superman gets his energy from the sun. So as long as the sun is burning, he basically has unlimited energy. Dragonball characters create their own power which is definitively finite, and it drains in a very similar way to normal humans in that when they exert themselves, they have to heal/rest.

5: "magic"? By that you are disqualifying actual magic, or just anything thats not energy blasts and flight? It gets to be splitting hairs at some point, but the difference that I observe is this - "magic" is something that is invoked from an external source, works without effort, and can feasibly operate with absolutely no regard for causality. As in, boop! I just created a wall in front of me that is impervious to ki blasts for some absolutely baseless reason, or spawned a multitude of miniature black holes around my enemy, or touched my opponent and now he is being supernaturally leeched of energy. Hah-HAH! That kind of ridiculous thing.

Yus.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku and anyone from the Z gang fighting together agaisnt an opponent is basically what Gogeta and Vegetto are. The only difference is that with Gogeta and Vegetto they chose to use fusion in order to be more effective on their team up.

So, if Gogeta is a form of Goku, then Goku fighting alongside Piccolo agaisnt Radditz is a form of Goku. They just didn't combine their efforts via fusion, otherwise its the same thing: Goku teaming up with someone else to fight agaisnt an opponent.

Hence, why it shouldn't really be considered an actual form of Goku. Its something else.

Goku & Vegeta don't team up, they transform into Gogeta/Vegetto. The fact that the fusion result is a transformation is stated in the manga:

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”

And then we have guidebooks & video games having Vegetto listed under Goku's & Vegeta's forms.

[mmg86]

Cursed Lemon, thanks for the reply. Thinking about characters who conform to all those points is an interesting thought exercise. Some I'm coming up with still leave room for debate because its hard to follow all those requirements perfectly, but I'm trying and have some candidates. The first one that came to mind is Gladiator, from Marvel. Superman didnt qualify because he has an external power source. Gladiator is Superman except he doesnt get his powers from the sun lol.

Another would be Gold Saints and above characters in Saint Seiya, but i dont know if you would accept them because, 1, Cosmos (their energy type), despite being self generated, is infinite. They cant run out of Cosmos. Does that make them fail the stamina point? And 2, Cosmos has applications exotic enough that you might consider them to be "magic" (turning off your senses, mind control, etc)

Some powerful Chojins (from Kinnikuman) might qualify, though it depends on what feats we go by (Kinnikuman is the most inconsistent manga i have ever read, lol). Also, despite some of them having really exotic powers, they shouldnt qualify as magic because they are just racial traits/mutations. The only sketchy point is, do they qualify as normal and humanoid? But if you give Piccolo or Cell a pass on that one, then i dont see why most Chojins wouldnt pass lol.

[rereboy]

Goku & Vegeta don't team up, they transform into Gogeta/Vegetto. The fact that the fusion result is a transformation is stated in the manga.

So? That's just how they chose to team up.

They could have just tag teamed Buu, they could have used a single focused Ki blast that used both of their powers, Vegeta could have transfered his Ki into Goku, they could have used fusion (like they did), etc. These are ALL forms of teamwork. Only the strategy of how they use their efforts is different. Fusion is merely a technique, a strategy that allows both of them to maximize their efforts and powers together.

So, no, it doesn't make sense for Vegetto and Gogeta to be considered a form of Goku anymore than any other form of team work. And I really don't care if a guide says that it makes sense to consider it a form of Goku. To me it obviously doesn't.

[Rocketman]

Vegetto is an independent person, neither Goku nor Vegeta, but the result of their union.

You might as well say that Cell is a form of Freeza, or Gohan is a form of ChiChi.

[rereboy]

Vegetto is an independent person, neither Goku nor Vegeta, but the result of their union.

You might as well say that Cell is a form of Freeza, or Gohan is a form of ChiChi.

Exactly.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku & Vegeta perform a combined transformation through Fusion or Potara. This isn't my interpretation, this is stated in the manga.

And it's not the same as calling Cell a form of Freeza. Cell has Freeza's, etc cells, he was born with them, and there isn't any way to separate from them. Same for Gohan. Goku & Vegeta transformed into Gogeta & Vegetto, with the first being temporary, and the second being not necessarily permanent. Vegetto & Gogeta don't just have the cells of Goku & Vegeta, they are Goku & Vegeta themselves.

[rereboy]

Goku & Vegeta perform a combined transformation through Fusion or Potara. This isn't my interpretation, this is stated in the manga.

Which is, BY DEFINITION, a form of collaboration between two characters to achieve a goal. Hence, why its no different than any other form of teaming up.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

You mean that Goku & Piccolo transformed against Raditz? What?