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Technically we're not sure if a black hole isn't some kind of even deeper degenerate matter (conventional mathematics says this isn't true, I think).Rocketman wrote:You can't destroy a black hole. It is a hole, nothingness. It is not even empty space.
If you cause it to cease to be a black hole, to exist, you would have destroyed the black hole. There would no longer be any black hole (which is basically the definition of being destroyed, ceasing to exist).Rocketman wrote:You can't destroy a black hole. It is a hole, nothingness. It is not even empty space.
And how do you propose to do that?rereboy wrote:If you cause it to cease to be a black hole, you would have destroyed the black hole. There would no longer be any black hole.
Disregarding real-life physics, the question is meaningless.Cursed Lemon wrote:Even then, though...disregarding actual real-life physics, will we make the assumption that Vegetto could propel himself faster than the speed of light?
I'm sorry, are we discussion feats by fictional characters in fictional works of entertainment or discussing theoretical astrophysics?Rocketman wrote:And how do you propose to do that?rereboy wrote:If you cause it to cease to be a black hole, you would have destroyed the black hole. There would no longer be any black hole.
Like this, perhaps?Rocketman wrote:And how do you propose to do that?rereboy wrote:If you cause it to cease to be a black hole, you would have destroyed the black hole. There would no longer be any black hole.
Black holes are not part of reality/space-time.rereboy wrote:Whatever is required to do that doesn't really matter other than the fact that its more impressive and probably signifies a great deal of more power than blowing up physical celestial objects. Probably involves unbelievably strong magic and/or reality-space-time warping abilities.
ugggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
You did notice that that was merely a suggestion of the kind of level of powers that probably had to be involved, right? I almost put "reality-space-time-dimension-thing warping abilities" before I figured it was too long.Rocketman wrote:Black holes are not part of reality/space-time.rereboy wrote:Whatever is required to do that doesn't really matter other than the fact that its more impressive and probably signifies a great deal of more power than blowing up physical celestial objects. Probably involves unbelievably strong magic and/or reality-space-time warping abilities.
Well, it's magic, ain't it?rereboy wrote:Like what? Resisting Buu's candy beam is probably just because he's so strong compared to Buu that not even Buu's magic worked properly.
Well, you can't kill a black hole, now can you? Don't really get the point you're trying to make.No, disappear or cease to exist in the same way that a person ceases to exist when she is killed. There are lots of ways a person can be killed, but all that matters is that the person ceases to exist right? Its the same line of thought regarding a black hole.
Well, you see, I am not trying to argue that this particular character from this particular universe can't beat someone else. Even if just because I'm not familiar with most of them. What I'm trying to point out is that bringing up expressions such as "black hole buster", "Big Bang survivor" or "multiverse buster" have absolutely no scientific meaning, so it's no use making an argument based on them comparing different fictional universes with different sets of governing laws, because the meanings can freely vary between each since they don't really mean anything in the real world. "Busting" a four-galaxy universe isn't quite the same as "busting" our Universe, right?Most of the characters listed by me on that list on the top half aren't ordinary scientists with extraordinary machines, but beings of incredible power that surpass Vegetto in every way.
No, I didn't. Just trying to make you understand what I mean by complexity. That a system of particles is more complex than a particle. And actually a black hole's structure is relatively simple (which is not to say the calculations can't get out of control pretty quicky).And you ignored my completely. Nice.
Well, if you removed/destroyed enough matter inside that the mass within a certain space wasn't too great, it would no longer be a blackhole. Black Holes themselves can drop in mass overtime due to Hawking Radiation.Rocketman wrote:And how do you propose to do that?rereboy wrote:If you cause it to cease to be a black hole, you would have destroyed the black hole. There would no longer be any black hole.
FUCKmmg86 wrote:Now that i think about it, all this discussion about Black Holes started because of the "blackhole buster" label for a Diebuster character, back on the first page, right? Forget about how weird it sounds to you all to destroy it (which as i understand, was done with a kick...)... apparently the same series has some sort of space mollusk that uses a black hole as a shell or something... here there seems to be some info about it (though i cant vouch for the accuracy of it, given how often the members of that website make stuff up):
http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.c ... avity+Well
And here is their profile for the "black hole kicker":
http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.c ... ile+-+Nono
Mulitversal refers to multiple universes, not all universes. Omniversal would be all universes.Rocketman wrote:Claiming any fictional character is "multiversal" is retarded because it can't affect our universe.
Going beyond the speed of light can and does happen in fiction. Superman's several times the speed of light in modern incarnations. During the fights with the Gold Saints in Saint Seiya (who fight at the speed of light at least), there were times when the Bronzes were able to surpass their speed to attack them (and that was before facing gods and other powerful foes who were even faster than that). Hypnos, God of Sleep, said it would take a cold several hundred times below Absolute Zero to freeze his Surplice...make of that what you will, given what Absolute Zero is.DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:I'm not really sure if any anime characters could destroy black holes. For one thing, black holes are so dense and have extremely powerful gravity that not even light could escape it. How could an anime character's power even harm the black hole when the light, which is the fastest in the universe, is unable to do anything at all?
What's even more uncertainty is that we are not even sure if the black holes exist at all. All we had was unproven theory that they would be hypothetically existed in the universe. Black holes are just as mystery as dark energy, which supposedly was the cause of the accelerated expansion of the universe. I myself don't believe the dark energy exists. If that was the case, then the universe would have heat death already.
At that point, you're dealing with gods, in the realm of where the impossible happens. Going beyond the speed of light is also impossible, yet fiction allows such things. One could try to argue what below Absolute Zero means, is the natural motion of an object reversed? Is the energy turned negative, as if the particle suddenly became Anti-matter?DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Eh... It's kind of ridiculous to have powers that could go beyond 0 degree Kelvin, even in fiction. It's impossible to have the degree of this magnitude. Absolute zero is when atomic particles become motionless because there's no more energy to cause the vibration. Not even outer space itself could reach absolute zero. The natural coldest place known in the universe is located in Bowtie Nebulae, which only has about 1 degree kelvin.
Omnipotent beings would be able to, or those above the laws of the universe.Rocketman wrote:If you can move at absolute zero, then it is not absolute zero, and calling it such is bullshit to plump up your character's peen.
The only thing magical was Buu's beam. The fact that Vegetto was so strong compared to Buu that Buu's magic didn't work properly doesn't make Vegetto magical or make him have magical abilities. That would be like saying that if Vegetto resisted Chaotzu's telekinesis because he is so strong compared to Chaotzu, then Vegetto has telekinesis.Toriyama-sama wrote: Well, it's magic, ain't it?
Jeez... Like I've already stated: "If you cause it to cease to be a black hole, you would have destroyed the black hole. There would no longer be any black hole."Well, you can't kill a black hole, now can you? Don't really get the point you're trying to make.
You can't blow up a black hole, and if you google "destroy black hole" the results you'll find don't exactly match the definition you'd expect, and besides they correspond to still unsettled hypotheses which, in case they are actually true, wouldn't really be that impressive for a DBZ character to accomplish (namely, raise the BH's angular momentum past a certain value and you get rid of the event horizon - singularity's still there though, and there's no going around that as far as our understanding goes).
Now, if an author comes up with a fictional way of destroying (as in "snaps fingers and it vanishes") a fictional black hole, then he gets to decide how said move works. Remember when Chaozu's telekinesis didn't work on Piccolo Daimao? Who's to say the same won't happen this time? And I hope we can agree Vegetto is in every way superior to Akkuman. But Akkuman can kill Vegetto, can't he?
Summing things up, physical strength and ki are not the same as magic.
And I've already told you that clinging to scientific accuracy when not even Dragon Ball does it in the slightest is pointless. The terms you are criticizing are all straightforward concepts that don't need scientific accuracy to be understood and that are meant to reflect the scale of the powers of those characters because, guess what, they actually destroy universes and black holes, and survive explosions with energy equivalent to the big bang in their fictional universes.Well, you see, I am not trying to argue that this particular character from this particular universe can't beat someone else. Even if just because I'm not familiar with most of them. What I'm trying to point out is that bringing up expressions such as "black hole buster", "Big Bang survivor" or "multiverse buster" have absolutely no scientific meaning, so it's no use making an argument based on them comparing different fictional universes with different sets of governing laws, because the meanings can freely vary between each since they don't really mean anything in the real world. "Busting" a four-galaxy universe isn't quite the same as "busting" our Universe, right?
In other words, you took an adjective I used freely to describe a black hole to explain that we don't understand how they work, and used the opportunity to continue to insist on scientific accuracy. And you say you didn't miss the point. Ok.No, I didn't. Just trying to make you understand what I mean by complexity. That a system of particles is more complex than a particle. And actually a black hole's structure is relatively simple (which is not to say the calculations can't get out of control pretty quicky).
