Who's Stronger: Janemba or Hirudegarn.

[MysticVegeta]

I'd say Janemba for multiple reasons, but who do you reckon is stronger?

[Kid Buu]

Not to pretend I'm a mod or anything, but there's a thread for all verse matches here.

[MysticVegeta]

Not a vs. Thread. I just want to know who is more powerful.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Officially, Janenba is called to be the strongest, because SS3 Goku couldn't beat him, but could beat Hildegarn (that was the explanation in the statement).

However, I have my doubts on this. SS3 Goku didn't seem to be very far in power with Janenba, and Janenba had some crazy powers that helped him to crush Goku. But Hildegarn could beat U. Gohan & SS3 Gotenks, who are both far stronger than SS3 Goku, and Goku could only kill him with his new strongest technique, the Ryu-ken. Hildegarn had to rely on his ability to become a ghost to avoid damage, which leads me to believe that his body's durability doesn't match with his great power, meaning that weaker guys than him can cause him serious damage if they manage to hit him (like Goku did).

So, in terms of power it's True Form Hildegarn > U. Gohan > SS3 Gotenks > Super Janenba > SS3 Goku, but in terms of durability, it's U. Gohan > SS3 Gotenks > Super Janenba > SS3 Goku > True Form Hildegarn, IMO.

But even though Hildegarn in more powerful than Janenba when it comes to raw power, I believe that Janenba would beat him in a one-on-one fight with the abilities he has, which makes him the true strongest.

[MysticVegeta]

Well, if you go by the Anime chain, SSJ3 Goku is in a different league compared to Gohan.

SSJ3 Goku ~ Kid Boo > SSJ2 Goku ~ SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ Goku ~ SSJ Vegeta > U. Gohan = U. Gohan clone > SSJ3 Gotenks = SSJ3 Gotenks clone = Super Boo.

In the Boo's body filler, Goku faces the clone of his son, Gohan, and claims that he is as powerful as the real thing. Goku beats this clone as SSJ, so that puts SSJ about U. Gohan and makes him almost GT level overpowered.

Thanks Toei.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, if you go by the Anime chain, SSJ3 Goku is in a different league compared to Gohan.

SSJ3 Goku ~ Kid Boo > SSJ2 Goku ~ SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ Goku ~ SSJ Vegeta > U. Gohan = U. Gohan clone > SSJ3 Gotenks = SSJ3 Gotenks clone = Super Boo.

In the Boo's body filler, Goku faces the clone of his son, Gohan, and claims that he is as powerful as the real thing. Goku beats this clone as SSJ, so that puts SSJ about U. Gohan and makes him almost GT level overpowered.

Thanks Toei.

Toei just likes to think that even if there is a x100 gap in their powers, they can have a good fight. A perfect example is M7: we see base Goku, base Trunks, and base Vegeta having fight with #13, #14, and #15 respectively, they transform into Super Saiyans, and they still have a hard fight (but eventually win), which would put the Artificial Humans close to the Super Saiyans, meaning that they should literally KO the base Saiyans with one hit. Another good example is in GT, where base Gohan can fight with SS Goten. There are even stupid things like Oozaru Vegeta overpowering SS4 Goku.

But since Toei's logic contradicts Toriyama's logic, I take the illogical anime feats as contradictions, meaning that base Goku can't beat Freeza & Cell, and can't fight Rild in his base form, and he never surpassed U. Gohan, or even SS Gotenks (if you believe that Fusion is a stable multiplier) until he transformed into Super Saiyan 4 (and God in BoG).

[MysticVegeta]

Well, I've watched time and time again, the same episode when Goku surpasses Gohan. I think it's a key to anime debates about events close to the Boo arc.

I think Kamikaze Pyro expanded upon my chain greatly. You might be about to find it with a quick google search.

[RandomGuy96]

Hirudegarn is many times stronger. The only thing supporting Janemba being stronger is a now defunct website that didn't even consider the feats or anything similar. It's even less valid than that old V-Jump issue saying Yakon's power level was 40,000,000 by virtue of SS Goku's being 150,000,000.

Also, that interpretation of the anime doesn't work, since Super Buu proceeded to beat up SS2 Goku and SS2 Vegeta (had lightning when powering up and everything) in that same filler. That and the anime still retains the many statements about Super's superiority. Unless Anime Super Buu > Gohan... somehow.

[Hugo Boss]

The Flea Evil Boo should be weaker than Ghost Gohan. I don't remember the ghost warriors being defeated by Goku & Vegeta, they turn into candy as soon as Boo enters in a candy store. Before then I think Goku & Vegeta were cornered.

[hleV]

SS3 Goku didn't seem to be very far in power with Janenba.

... Yes, yes he did.

[RandomGuy96]

SS3 Goku didn't seem to be very far in power with Janenba.

... Yes, yes he did.

How? Put some actual content here.

[hleV]

Goku's successful hits didn't damage Janenba but not vice-versa.

[Kaboom]

Even if the reasoning Toei used for it was a bit wobbly, I don't see any issue with Janemba being stronger than Hildegarn. Both of them were much more powerful than Goku, and it took two different yet equally extreme measures to defeat them — namely a Goku/Vegeta Fusion and a super-powerful haxed attack.

In a way, if Janemba could be considered a movies equivalent to Evil Boo (perhaps with Gotenks or Gohan absorbed in terms of comparing power) then Hildegarn could likewise be considered the movies equivalent of Pure Boo. In particular, maybe the anime version of Pure Boo who simultaneously is and isn't the strongest form so far.

[Kamiccolo9]

In particular, maybe the anime version of Pure Boo who simultaneously is and isn't the strongest form so far.

Well, the Buu Arc was kinda Toriyama's self parody of his own work. Maybe Toei decided they'd do the same thing

[RandomGuy96]

Goku's successful hits didn't damage Janenba but not vice-versa.

Yet the mere fact that Janemba was hurt by Goku's hits (and had to resort to special powers to win) indicates that he can't be that far above him. One of Goku's kicks even stunned Janemba in pain for several seconds.

Even if the reasoning Toei used for it was a bit wobbly, I don't see any issue with Janemba being stronger than Hildegarn. Both of them were much more powerful than Goku, and it took two different yet equally extreme measures to defeat them — namely a Goku/Vegeta Fusion and a super-powerful haxed attack.

I have it the other way around. Janemba is power wise close to Pure Buu, and I also think he's closer in both role and personality. Hirudegarn would be equivalent to Super Buu in his first form (got beat up by Gotenks) and Gotenks-Buu in his second (beat up Gohan).

But it doesn't matter anyway. Officially LSS Movie 8 Broly > SS3 Goku, so Movie 10 Broly should whoop Janemba, making him officially the strongest movie villain.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku's successful hits didn't damage Janenba but not vice-versa.

Gohan & Dabra couldn't damage each other as well. And it's not like Janenba tanked Goku's hits. This means that there is a less than x2 difference in their powers.

[MysticVegeta]

I know nothing is said, but has anybody thought about this?

Vegetto wasn't meant to split back, so is it possible, that when they split, Goku took half of the fusions power, and Vegeta took half?

So Goku and Vegeta are now Goku + 50% Vegetto and Vegeta + 50% Vegetto?

That sure would explain the mess Toei made.

It doesn't matter if Boo beat up the SSJ2s. Now Goku and Vegeta are stronger in weaker forms due to a Toei fuck-up.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I know nothing is said, but has anybody thought about this?

Vegetto wasn't meant to split back, so is it possible, that when they split, Goku took half of the fusions power, and Vegeta took half?

So Goku and Vegeta are now Goku + 50% Vegetto and Vegeta + 50% Vegetto?

That sure would explain the mess Toei made.

It doesn't matter if Boo beat up the SSJ2s. Now Goku and Vegeta are stronger in weaker forms due to a Toei fuck-up.

Goku still believed that they didn't stand a chance against Evil Boo, so no. Toei didn't make Goku & Vegeta appear stronger, they made Gohan & Gotenks appear weaker.

[hleV]

Goku's successful hits didn't damage Janenba but not vice-versa.

Yet the mere fact that Janemba was hurt by Goku's hits

He most definitely wasn't. He didn't tank Goku's hits in the sense that he wouldn't even budge, but Janenba took 0 damage (other than being stung for a second, perhaps) from Goku and I'm saying that after having just watched the fight.

had to resort to special powers to win

Nothing suggests that he had to, it's just the way he fights. Janenba looked like he was playing the whole time, while Goku was struggling hard.

Goku's successful hits didn't damage Janenba but not vice-versa.

Gohan & Dabra couldn't damage each other as well.

But Janenba did damage Goku (hence not vice-versa).

But then I'm not sure what's "far in power" according to you.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But Janenba did damage Goku (hence not vice-versa).

Because Janenba was stronger.

But then I'm not sure what's "far in power" according to you.

If Janenba was a 10, then Goku is a 7. That's about how I see it.

It is far in power, but not as far as Goku & Hildegarn are.