Androids #19 & #20's Power

[Origibros]

I always wondered where #19 and #20's powers were at, was #19 post-absorbtions stronger than #20? I have full power #19 close to #20 but still below, and #20 below Piccolo and SSJ Vegeta.

Where do you have their power on a whole?

[MysticVegeta]

My chain is:

SSJ Vegeta > Piccolo > Android 20 > Android 19 (Post) > SSJ Goku > Android 19 (Pre) >> SSJ Goku (@ Freeza) > Freeza (100%)

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Far weaker than the Super Saiyans, weaker than Piccolo, and not extremely far from the base Saiyans.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

My chain is:

SSJ Vegeta > Piccolo > Android 20 > Android 19 (Post) > SSJ Goku > Android 19 (Pre) >> SSJ Goku (@ Freeza) > Freeza (100%)

Pretty much how I see it as well.

[RandomGuy96]

A lot weaker than Freeza without absorbing any energy. In the case of 20, maybe even after.

[Mystic Buu]

They were weak.I think about Freeza's power because Goku with ''little'' heart virus could easily beat #20.And Piccolo told that Goku should be much,much stronger.

[hleV]

I'm somewhat hesitant to actually do a thorough research on this specific matter, but if an opinion based on what I do know is good, then it's like this: the initial #19 and #20 are both weaker than Piccolo, and Piccolo is weaker than base Goku and Vegeta. The confusion regarding the androids and certain Z Fighters' strengths stems from the androids having been expected to be super strong, which they weren't, and the Z Fighters' inability to sense their power.

[MysticVegeta]

They were weak.I think about Freeza's power because Goku with ''little'' heart virus could easily beat #20.And Piccolo told that Goku should be much,much stronger.

Where was it stated that he could beat #20? He couldn't beat #19, who was weaker than #20.

#20 > #19 (Post) is debatable. It could very well be #19 (Post) > #20, but I think we all know that:

#20 (Post) > #19 (Post).

I'm sure #20 could beat Goku.

[hleV]

I think we all know that:

#20 (Post) > #19 (Post).

I'm pretty sure #20 never reached post-absorbtion #19's level of power.

[Hugo Boss]

Knowing Gero's character, I guess he wouldn't walk around with a partner that might be stronger than him, maybe that was the problem with #17 & #18. When he absorbed Vegeta's ki blast, he was pretty difficult to catch even for SS Vegeta, though not being enough to handle Piccolo's true strenght.

[RandomGuy96]

Knowing Gero's character, I guess he wouldn't walk around with a partner that might be stronger than him, maybe that was the problem with #17 & #18. When he absorbed Vegeta's ki blast, he was pretty difficult to catch even for SS Vegeta, though not being enough to handle Piccolo's true strenght.

Base 20 is stated to be stronger than base 19. They both really only have to be stronger than the base saiyans, so it doesn't particularly matter where they're placed. But they're probably not many times weaker than the Super Saiyans, since SS Goku couldn't one-shot base 19. I think they're right around final form Freeza (non-buff) levels of power.

Of course, depending on how you take certain lines from Kami, they may very well be even weaker than that. Like 50% Freeza or weaker.

but I think we all know that:

#20 (Post) > #19 (Post).

Why? Powered up 19 was able to make Super Saiyan Vegeta bleed. Powered up 20 got destroyed by someone quite possibly weaker than 100% Freeza.

[MysticVegeta]

If Gero powered up in the same fashion as #19, he'd logically be stronger because he was stronger to begin with.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Let's look at the energy gained:

#19: Super Saiyan Goku's KameHameHa, weakened Base Goku's energy (I know he absorbed Super Saiyan Vegeta's energy, but it was rendered useless right after)
#20: Yamcha's energy, Super Saiyan Vegeta's Chi-blast, Suppressed Piccolo's energy

#19 was stated to have been close to running dry right before he absorbed Goku's attack, which would not only restore all of his lost energy, but take him well beyond his normal capabilities:

No.20: “Alright! No.19’s maximum power rating has greatly increased from what it was before! In contrast, Son Goku’s energy has fallen remarkably…!”

He then proceeded to absorb Goku's energy when he could no longer fight--and #20 reiterates how much power #19's gained from Goku overall:

No.20: “You’re so greedy…Even though you sucked so much energy out of Son Goku, and have raised your absolute power…”

With that, we know #19 was way more powerful than he was without Goku's energy. #20, on the otherhand, seems to come down to how much energy you think Vegeta's attack and Piccolo's non-relevant energy would add to him. Not just that, but also how much of a power advantage #20 would have over #19 from the start. If he's significantly more powerful than #19, Goku's energy could've put him on the same level as #20 or possibly a bit stronger.

[MysticVegeta]

My point was that if #20 had absorbed Goku's energy instead, he'd still be stronger. Quite considerably.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, I know. My post was just focused on comparing the power-up's between the two to see how they would compare. I'm sure no one would dispute that #20 would be much stronger than #19 if he was presented with the same opportunity of absorbing Goku's energy.

[RandomGuy96]

My point was that if #20 had absorbed Goku's energy instead, he'd still be stronger. Quite considerably.

But he didn't.

[MysticVegeta]

My point was that if #20 had absorbed Goku's energy instead, he'd still be stronger. Quite considerably.

But he didn't.

I know that. I still have #20 > #19 (Post) though.

Dr. Gero was a genius, and if #19 could ever surpass him, I doubt #20 would have even made him.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Since #19 is an energy absorbing model, there would always be potential for him to surpass #20 in power. If he was that cautious about #19 growing too powerful, he would've probably made him into an infinite model with a static level of power much weaker than himself.

[RandomGuy96]

I know that. I still have #20 > #19 (Post) though.

You said that we'd all agree that powered up 20 was stronger than powered up 19. I don't, since I don't think powered up 20 could make Super Saiyan Vegeta bleed. And you justified it with 20 being stronger than 19 initially. I didn't think that made any sense.

Anyway. It's possible that 20 and 19 are very weak. It's unknown how much power 19 would get from absorbing a Kamehameha, but I guess nothing really contradicts his energy from Goku being majority of his power. If you go by that, they could be as low like... 5-10 million or something. I think the pre-absorption androids only feats are tanking base Goku (#20, not impressive at all), one-shotting Yamcha (#20, again, nothing big), and surviving hits from sick SS Goku (#19, we don't know exactly how strong sick Goku is). And #20, upon using his built in scouter to read Yamcha's ki, considered it to be "a large amount of energy" that would be helpful in his battle against the others, despite the fact that even if you do think Yamcha and the other humans somehow entered the millions by this point, they're still clearly much weaker than base Vegeta:

Chapter: 349 (DBZ 155), P14.2
Context: Tenshinhan and Kuririn failing to knock down the laboratory door
Kuririn: “This door is ex-extremely durable…!”
Piccolo: “Get out of the way. I’ll destroy it.”

(base Vegeta proceeds to blow up that door)

Chapter 338 (DBZ 144), P9.6-7, P10.1
Context: the androids mistake Yamcha for Goku
No.20: “A human with an unusually high energy rating is heading this way…Is the search system malfunctioning?”

Chapter 338 (DBZ 144), P11.4
No.19: “No, it is not Son Goku…He doesn’t match the data. There’s a 96% chance this is the human known as Yamcha…”
No.20: “At any rate, we’ll be able to obtain a large amount of energy.”

Then again, Gero said this:

Chapter 340 (DBZ 146), P14.1
Context: after Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan
No.20: “However, this isn’t anything great enough to give us reason to fear. It’s still within a level which even No.19 is more than capable of defeating, and naturally that goes for myself as well…”

...right before sick Goku proceeded to beat on 19, and thought that four powers weaker than base Vegeta (Piccolo was still suppressed below that level when 20 read him) would give him enough strength to defeat Super Saiyan Vegeta, so I don't know what's going on.

Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P14.7
Context: after seeing that Gohan, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Kuririn had followed him
No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”

[Saiga]

You know, Super Saiyan Turlast x4, looking at those quotes actually makes 19 and 20 look super weak to me. Hmm.

But then again 20 doesn't seem to be a great judge of power.