Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:50 am

@Kaboom

I enjoyed the titles and sub titles...easily the best parts. I did the same for my levels when I read your initial ones...though mine aren't as funny

Putting a number to some things would be nice instead of Angry, Error, etc...but I get the point to it

The numbers for Gohan and Krillin are the V Jump levels around the Freeza fight. I'm not sure those are official as didn't they also do the Cooler Squad and Cooler/Broly/Gogeta which I think were bogus.

How come F. Gohan is stronger in the Manga levels than the Special levels.

How come the PL's for 17 & 18 in the future after Trunks goes to kill then are the same as the past ones? Is it because you believe they always held back instead of actually being weaker.

I don't think Kibitoshin is stronger than SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta....but....ok

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:09 pm

Saiga wrote:Well, if you care enough, Goku's 90,000 comes from Daizenshuu 7.

I knew that, but didn't change the note to reflect it for some reason. Changed it now.

dbzfan7 wrote:The numbers for Gohan and Krillin are the V Jump levels around the Freeza fight. I'm not sure those are official as didn't they also do the Cooler Squad and Cooler/Broly/Gogeta which I think were bogus.

Well, the criteria is pretty much, "if I think it works, I use it." The list of numbers which don't pass that test is pretty short.

dbzfan7 wrote:How come F. Gohan is stronger in the Manga levels than the Special levels.

That would be one of those "changed in one list but forgot to change in the other" things I knew would pop up. Whoopsie. Fixed both of those sections in general now.

dbzfan7 wrote:How come the PL's for 17 & 18 in the future after Trunks goes to kill then are the same as the past ones? Is it because you believe they always held back instead of actually being weaker.

Probably a copy-paste that I forgot to adjust. I believe in a combination of both ideas — they were holding back on Trunks and Gohan, but were a little weaker overall than their past selves too.

dbzfan7 wrote:I don't think Kibitoshin is stronger than SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta....but....ok

Yeah, that one's kind of arbitrary. I just wanted to make his boost from the Potara worth something. But like I mentioned, "powerful" does not always equal "useful."

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:13 pm

Also, I'm very surprised you put Gotenks up there with Fat Boo, and Gohan 5x stronger than Goku (and I think, twice as strong as the last list exactly). Is this something you did just to see how it would come out, or have you changed your mind on these things? And how do you think about South Kaioshin and Buff Boo and all that now?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:21 pm

Saiga wrote:Also, I'm very surprised you put Gotenks up there with Fat Boo, and Gohan 5x stronger than Goku (and I think, twice as strong as the last list exactly). Is this something you did just to see how it would come out, or have you changed your mind on these things?

Little of column A, little of column B.

Saiga wrote:And how do you think about South Kaioshin and Buff Boo and all that now?

I think the Kaioshin have unpredictable results when mixed with Majin Boo, and his changes when he absorbs them have more to do with their natures and personalities than their power. At least that's the notion I subscribe to for now.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:39 pm

I think you have an error in your list Kaboom. You have Super Vegeta at 1,300,000 and Goku at 1,250,000 at half power. Goku should be stronger.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:01 pm

"About" half-power, but I see what you mean. I left enough "space" between Goku, Cell, and Gohan that I could stand to tighten those spaces a bit to have Goku a little stronger.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:42 pm

Yeah I think it can still work, other than that fantastic job on the CG numbers. I might even use some.

xmysticgohanx · Post by **xmysticgohanx** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:22 pm

I could've sworn ss3 was a 4x multiplier so 400x base. Also how can ss1 grade 3 be 90x when gohan got a good deal stronger when he transformed to ss2 which is 100x?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:54 pm

xmysticgohanx wrote:I could've sworn ss3 was a 4x multiplier so 400x base. Also how can ss1 grade 3 be 90x when gohan got a good deal stronger when he transformed to ss2 which is 100x?

Whose list are you referring to here?

xmysticgohanx · Post by **xmysticgohanx** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:21 pm

Kaboom wrote:
xmysticgohanx wrote:I could've sworn ss3 was a 4x multiplier so 400x base. Also how can ss1 grade 3 be 90x when gohan got a good deal stronger when he transformed to ss2 which is 100x?
Whose list are you referring to here?

Op's

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:46 pm

xmysticgohanx wrote:OP's

I'll assume you mean "original/opening poster's," in which case, those are mine...

...From when I first made the thread four years ago. A lot's changed since then. I just posted the newest iteration of my power levels on the page prior to this one.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:58 pm

I decided to make a Battle Powers list based on the base Goku<Freeza statement from Battle of Gods.

* indicates official Battle Powers.

Dragon Ball

Spoiler:

The Piccolo Daimao Arc.

Spoiler:

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai.

Spoiler:

Dragon Ball Z

Saiyan Arc Part 1:

Spoiler:

Saiyan Arc Part 2:

Spoiler:

The Freeza Arc

Spoiler:

The Cell Arc

Spoiler:

The Majin Buu Arc

Spoiler:

Battle of Gods

Spoiler:

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:20 pm

Curious: is Tao's 110 an actual official battle power? I thought it was, and I see everyone using it, including this list, but I haven't actually seen a scan for it.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:30 pm

I don't think it is. The lates battle powers the Kanzenshuu staff found has him at over 200(not Cyborg form) IIRC.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:32 pm

dbgtFO wrote:I don't think it is. The lates battle powers the Kanzenshuu staff found has him at over 200(not Cyborg form) IIRC.

That 210 is for cyborg Tao, isn't it?

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:43 pm

No I'm talking about this one:

It lists normal Tao as 240. You can see them all way Down on this page: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:46 pm

Oooooh, that. Yeah, I don't even consider those to use the same units that the scouters use, since, you know, normal Tao is stronger than Cyborg Tao, and Blue is as strong as 22nd Budokai Goku, and Tambourine is way stronger than the Goku that roflstomped him.

Actually, screw it. Those numbers just aren't relevant to anything, since Tambourine is stronger than Drum, and Piano is stronger than the Crane Hermit.

Oh hey, something I notice looking at the BP chart again; specifically the section on 1990 issue of V-Jump. Tenshinhan said that he's gotten much stronger from training with Kaio at the time of the Freeza battle, even though it hasn't even been a week. A sign of large gains for the humans? Also, second form Freeza's power is rounded down to exactly one million, just like Goku's over 8,000 is rounded down to simply 8,000 (an indication that the amount by which it surpasses 1 million is completely negligible?).

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:52 pm

Yeah, I think the same.
Clearly they don't make much sense, when compared to the official ones.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:37 pm

Anyway, on to your list itself:

If Goku's Super Kamehameha was 910, how did Piccolo Jr survive it with a puny battle power of 400? This is why I like assuming that 910 was just his full power, while 416 was his suppressed/resting power. That and it just makes sense, and gives more room to fit in the pre-Raditz numbers (that approach still lets one fit in every official number except King Piccolo and post god water Goku).

Nappa has no "calm" battle power. Nappa cannot change his battle power. Krillin was listed as 1,770 normally, it being a blast wasn't mentioned. On the other hand, Gohan's 981 was never noted to be suppressed, he had trouble following the movements of a Saibaman, and cowered in fear of one, so I don't think him being stronger than Krillin is likely. Why the heck would Piccolo's 3,500 be referring to a hypothetical blast that he never performed, when the image implies no such thing? That doesn't even make any sense. That is by far the weirdest power you have listed in the Saiyan arc. Oozaru Vegeta should be far below 180,000, as Vegeta was nowhere near full power when he transformed.

You have the same battle power that I do for Monster Zarbon. So that's cool I guess. But I have to question why Recoome, Burter, and Jeice are so high? A x1.5 difference between them and Vegeta would imply a one-shot, and Recoome tanking hits, which isn't what happened. Vegeta put up an admirable effort, and his hurts clearly hurt and damaged Recoome a bit. That doesn't match with, for example, your levels for Kamiccolo and Cell. I think they're likely closer to 40,000 if not lower. Guldo should also be a lot higher; Gohan and Krillin weren't able to end him in one blow or anything, and the fight with Nappa actually showed us that at the gap you have between Gohan/Krillin and Guldo, his powers simply wouldn't have done anything. I think that your gap between initial Freeza and 'Super Saiyan' Vegeta is too small. Freeza could move faster than Vegeta could see and knock away his big blast like it ain't no thang, yet he's not even x1.5 stronger here. And in may be minor, but you also forgot to list ~70% Freeza.

Okay, first thing I notice in the android arc numbers is that 17 and Kamiccolo should be lower. 17 a full 10% stronger than 18? Not only does that not seem necessary, but I also think it's better to have a bigger gap between Kamiccolo and post-humans Cell, since the latter tanked the former's strongest attack and ended him with one hit. And to backpedal a bit, Mecha Freeza wasn't at full power when he was killed, so why aren't any levels listed for that? Not that it matters. Any particular reason for rating pre-merger Piccolo so low also? Anyway, the next level that seems to make little sense: Initial Perfect Cell. He tanked Vegeta's kick to the neck like nothing and proceeded to kick his ass effortlessly. Just walked right through a full force kick to the neck. But you have him just barley stronger than Vegeta. Why? On to the Cell Games: you sure do have Piccolo low. Much weaker than even Semi-Perfect Cell, which seems weird given that Trunks was shocked when he heard that Piccolo couldn't help against Cell. Any reason for that? You also have suppressed Cell and Goku as equals... it seemed fairly clear to me that Cell had a decent power advantage, given Goku's comments and how the fight went.

Okay, so a few weird things I notice immediately in the Buu arc list: first, Kibito is only 30 million. Why? He was stated in the Daizenshuu to have a battle power that could give a good fight to base Gohan... what logic is there to giving him a battle power of 30 million instead? Gohan's power seems too high (I presume that's SS2, not SS1 Gohan); barley 10% weaker than he was as a kid, when according to Vegeta he was "much, much better when he killed Cell". South Kaioshin being 60 billion, making him stronger than Pure Buu, doesn't seem likely, both because of Kaioshin's comment at the beginning of the arc and Mr. Buu's demonstrated strength later (he has the South Kaioshin inside of him). Then later in the arc, I have one main quibble; why is base form Vegetto stronger than Gohan-Buu?

And while I don't care about BOG levels much, I just have to ask: Goku making absolutely no gains in strength at all in five years of training?

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:57 pm

Kaboom, why did you exclude Goten from The Mark of Ozotto? ;_;

~Da Lemmy

Kanzenshuu

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