And those that say they want to simulate the show, isn't no transformations during a battle technically more like the series? I don't recall any fights where Goku did something like, "This guy is strong! I'll have to turn ssj to fight him! Now I'll change back to normal to use the Genki Dama! Now I'll turn ssj2 do do these moves! Now I'll change back to normal to use Kaioken! Now I'll turn ssj for some close combat! Now I'll turn ssj3 to do this! Now back to normal for another Genki Dama! Now I'll turn ssjg to finish things off!"
In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
Re: In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
In this game's case, I'd say no transformations is the better choice for now, considering this is a whole new type of game where they wouldn't be at all the same as in the previous type games we've had so far. If you could change between Goku's different forms, you'd effectively be controlling five different characters with different roles all at once. If they changed it so that it's nothing more than a sudden "change of clothes" then that would make it rather pointless. Or if it was a case where only invisible things like defence and attack go up, then there still isn't much point, just change to your strongest form ASAP and stick with it.
And those that say they want to simulate the show, isn't no transformations during a battle technically more like the series? I don't recall any fights where Goku did something like, "This guy is strong! I'll have to turn ssj to fight him! Now I'll change back to normal to use the Genki Dama! Now I'll turn ssj2 do do these moves! Now I'll change back to normal to use Kaioken! Now I'll turn ssj for some close combat! Now I'll turn ssj3 to do this! Now back to normal for another Genki Dama! Now I'll turn ssjg to finish things off!"
Generally, a character would just fight in their strongest (or whatever was suitable for the case) form and stick with it the whole fight. If this were something like a game where you take the role of one of the characters and explore a large world where you meet several different guys of differing strength to face, I'd certainly hope to use that character's transformations at will as I decide what must be done in every situation. But for a game like this, I find transformations are really not necessary.
And those that say they want to simulate the show, isn't no transformations during a battle technically more like the series? I don't recall any fights where Goku did something like, "This guy is strong! I'll have to turn ssj to fight him! Now I'll change back to normal to use the Genki Dama! Now I'll turn ssj2 do do these moves! Now I'll change back to normal to use Kaioken! Now I'll turn ssj for some close combat! Now I'll turn ssj3 to do this! Now back to normal for another Genki Dama! Now I'll turn ssjg to finish things off!"
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Re: Battle of Z question.
Interesting to note, having run my ripped Tenkaichi 2 Wii version off a hard drive, when played that way the transformations are instant, since T2 is a port we can assume the Wii's more and better everything didn't do much if anything towards the game's performance. Which casts it as a streaming speed issue, in which case I question if the HD twins and vita have an excuse in that regard if only because I doubt the complexity of the characters scales to the console's RAM relative to Spike's games and the PS2. But I could be wrong, particularly if Battle of Z does an admirable job at making mostly aesthetic transformations distinct in their purposes, in which case they are closer to genuinely different characters.
The real kicker, as we all know, was the transformation stun; transforming characters could disarm opponents or, if the player was really good, use the stun to extend a combo. I think that's a bigger issue than the damage increases, but at the same time if the player couldn't utilize them then their opponent could simply play well around them. The capsule Yakon existed to counter this, causing transformed ki to drain faster in Budokai 2 and draining health alongside ki (last I recall) in Budokai 3, but the latter is ridiculous and capsules are usually limited to breakthroughs by high-level players to block other exploits, namely related to getting infinite teleports off of Omgega/Li Shenron if I recall.
I'd actually really like a sub discussion of this- been playing Budokai 3 HD with a friend lately so it's on my mind. Yeah, the first two Budokai's transformations drained ki, faster drain for stronger forms, and I believe every character got a 10% attack boost as max ki, possible smaller ones at higher bars, whether they could transform or not. They honestly weren't worth using outside of breakthroughs, however, since their boosts were tiny- in B2 Super Sayain 3 was a 25% boost. 25% boost isn't worth four of seven skill slots unless you intended to spam one death move or cancel combo to death. Super Sayain 4 being no different.VegettoEX wrote:To me, prior to that, it always seemed like they affected the balance of the games. I mean, you chose one character, and then suddenly you're another one with an enhanced baseline ki level (in DBZ3 / Budokai 3, anyway). I don't actually know what it did to strength stats, but I'd wager it didn't actually do anything there to at least somewhat pretend to keep a balance. In the prior two games at least it seemed somewhat more difficult to maintain the stage (it drained your ki, right, and if you got hit down you lost it? Which is why the third game tried to rectify that with a baseline level?).
The real kicker, as we all know, was the transformation stun; transforming characters could disarm opponents or, if the player was really good, use the stun to extend a combo. I think that's a bigger issue than the damage increases, but at the same time if the player couldn't utilize them then their opponent could simply play well around them. The capsule Yakon existed to counter this, causing transformed ki to drain faster in Budokai 2 and draining health alongside ki (last I recall) in Budokai 3, but the latter is ridiculous and capsules are usually limited to breakthroughs by high-level players to block other exploits, namely related to getting infinite teleports off of Omgega/Li Shenron if I recall.
JulieYBM wrote:Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
son veku wrote:CanadaMetalwario64 wrote:Where is that located?BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:Kingdom Piccolo
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Re: In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
That already happens, sometimes. And that's with no transformations and no Vita crossplay, just PS3 users. For that reason alone, I'm okay with no transformations. That and the fact that all transformations ARE different characters with different roles (most of the times).VegettoEX wrote:punch pause pause pause punch punch pauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse kick pauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse super pauuuuuuuuuuuuuse rage quit.
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superkakarrot2
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Re: In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
I'm pretty sure that this is a 100% intentional design choice, considering how different versions of characters play different roles and have different movesets.
Re: In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
I don't understand all the hate for In-Game Transformations. They add a lot to game to me and don't really distract that much. It's like what 25 seconds at best?
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Re: In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
I think you're misreading the conversation.Dbzfan94 wrote:I don't understand all the hate for In-Game Transformations. They add a lot to game to me and don't really distract that much. It's like what 25 seconds at best?
At least personally, I don't have anything against them if they either: (a) add something of substance to the gameplay, and/or (b) do not negatively affect the flow of the game.
In the case of Battle of Z, there are clear gameplay reasons to separate out different forms of characters, which inherently means that transforming among them negatively affects the type of gameplay the developer is specifically trying to craft.
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Re: In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
For Battle of Z I can understand because of the different types.VegettoEX wrote:I think you're misreading the conversation.Dbzfan94 wrote:I don't understand all the hate for In-Game Transformations. They add a lot to game to me and don't really distract that much. It's like what 25 seconds at best?
At least personally, I don't have anything against them if they either: (a) add something of substance to the gameplay, and/or (b) do not negatively affect the flow of the game.
In the case of Battle of Z, there are clear gameplay reasons to separate out different forms of characters, which inherently means that transforming among them negatively affects the type of gameplay the developer is specifically trying to craft.
But for the other games (Budokai, BT2/3, RB1/2) I'd much rather have in game transformations then like in BT1.
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Re: In-Game Transformations (re: "Battle of Z" having none)
Considering they're never done correctly at all (except for Freeza's and Coolers) I say I lost all patience waiting for Spike to get the damn SSJ transformations done right.
Gameplay wise, I think it was a better choice to excluded them for how BoZ plays, for one the graphics are horrible so I'd rather spare my eyes... but functionally transformations in a game like that would just slow down the pace with 8 people constantly pausing everything for it, I say someone could exploit it. Freeze up the game or use it to glitch out hits.
Gameplay wise, I think it was a better choice to excluded them for how BoZ plays, for one the graphics are horrible so I'd rather spare my eyes... but functionally transformations in a game like that would just slow down the pace with 8 people constantly pausing everything for it, I say someone could exploit it. Freeze up the game or use it to glitch out hits.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.


