I've thought that too once. The general feeling I have had for quite a while is that Toriyama didn't seem to be conclusive about which way he wanted to go. Is 416 Goku's full power or was that a suppressed reading like his 5,000 1 year later?RandomGuy96 wrote:Anyway, on to your list itself:
If Goku's Super Kamehameha was 910, how did Piccolo Jr survive it with a puny battle power of 400? This is why I like assuming that 910 was just his full power, while 416 was his suppressed/resting power. That and it just makes sense, and gives more room to fit in the pre-Raditz numbers (that approach still lets one fit in every official number except King Piccolo and post god water Goku).
Daizenshuu 7 claimed the 400 numbers for Goku and Piccolo were their full powers IIRC, so I go with that.
Also your first question, I guess Piccolo just did, much like Vegeta surviving that Genkidama, that should have been at ½ power, when the original should be enough against Oozaru Vegeta.
Indeed I take a lot of liberties from this particular part of the series. It just always bothered me, that they listed Gohan's power as 2,800, when that was for his Masenko(they didn't show a panel of him firing the Masenko rather a panel of him flying), which going by the logic from the Raditz battle would mean that his full power should be a good deal below that.Nappa has no "calm" battle power. Nappa cannot change his battle power. Krillin was listed as 1,770 normally, it being a blast wasn't mentioned. On the other hand, Gohan's 981 was never noted to be suppressed, he had trouble following the movements of a Saibaman, and cowered in fear of one, so I don't think him being stronger than Krillin is likely. Why the heck would Piccolo's 3,500 be referring to a hypothetical blast that he never performed, when the image implies no such thing? That doesn't even make any sense. That is by far the weirdest power you have listed in the Saiyan arc. Oozaru Vegeta should be far below 180,000, as Vegeta was nowhere near full power when he transformed.
Also Gohan's power of 1,600 is what he was using, when kicking Nappa into the mountain and I think that should be greater than Krillin's power.
Piccolo might have fired his Full Power blast, but given it was fired in such an instant(the one where he and Krillin surprise attacked Nappa), it probably wasn't full power.
I've always found it weird that Piccolo would be that close to Nappa, even though I probably have other powers even closer together in this list, when a big gap is implied lol.
About "calm" Nappa: I know full well, that he and Vegeta couldn't manipulate their powers, it was more of a joke on how people usually disagree with Nappa being 4,000 and claiming that when calm, he'd be much stronger, so I gave it as that "figure."
Yeah, I actually don't know about Recoome, Butta and Jhees, on one side Recoome seems stronger than Vegeta, but not that strong, but on the other side where does Nail factor into the equation? Is he really stronger than them? It could definitely be possible.You have the same battle power that I do for Monster Zarbon. So that's cool I guess. But I have to question why Recoome, Burter, and Jeice are so high? A x1.5 difference between them and Vegeta would imply a one-shot, and Recoome tanking hits, which isn't what happened. Vegeta put up an admirable effort, and his hurts clearly hurt and damaged Recoome a bit. That doesn't match with, for example, your levels for Kamiccolo and Cell. I think they're likely closer to 40,000 if not lower. Guldo should also be a lot higher; Gohan and Krillin weren't able to end him in one blow or anything, and the fight with Nappa actually showed us that at the gap you have between Gohan/Krillin and Guldo, his powers simply wouldn't have done anything. I think that your gap between initial Freeza and 'Super Saiyan' Vegeta is too small. Freeza could move faster than Vegeta could see and knock away his big blast like it ain't no thang, yet he's not even x1.5 stronger here. And in may be minor, but you also forgot to list ~70% Freeza.
I've always just had them at those levels, so I didn't feel like changing them, but I could probably be swayed into having them at less than 40,000.
Good point on Guldo.
In truth as far as this list is concerned, I don't have consistent power gap logic. Everything is just cramped together to make base Goku(BoG) < Freeza Work and to also make it look a little bit decent. That's why initial Perfect Cell ends up not being that much higher than Vegeta, when I'd normally prefer a 2x gap for tanking.Okay, first thing I notice in the android arc numbers is that 17 and Kamiccolo should be lower. 17 a full 10% stronger than 18? Not only does that not seem necessary, but I also think it's better to have a bigger gap between Kamiccolo and post-humans Cell, since the latter tanked the former's strongest attack and ended him with one hit. And to backpedal a bit, Mecha Freeza wasn't at full power when he was killed, so why aren't any levels listed for that? Not that it matters. Any particular reason for rating pre-merger Piccolo so low also? Anyway, the next level that seems to make little sense: Initial Perfect Cell. He tanked Vegeta's kick to the neck like nothing and proceeded to kick his ass effortlessly. Just walked right through a full force kick to the neck. But you have him just barley stronger than Vegeta. Why? On to the Cell Games: you sure do have Piccolo low. Much weaker than even Semi-Perfect Cell, which seems weird given that Trunks was shocked when he heard that Piccolo couldn't help against Cell. Any reason for that? You also have suppressed Cell and Goku as equals... it seemed fairly clear to me that Cell had a decent power advantage, given Goku's comments and how the fight went.
I don't know where to put Piccolo, his power should be a good deal below Trunks, but that's all. At the Cell Games I guess I just didn't rate him that high. Also since I prefer Piccolo < base Gotenks, I should have him even lower than that lol.
Normally I'd agree that Cell should perhaps be a bit higher, but for the sake of the list I just rounded it down to make it look prettier.
I personally feel Kibito is much weaker than the base Saiyans based on the Z-sword scene, so I don't agree with the Daizenshuu 7 in this case. In the manga Gohan seemed to assume Kibito would be strong, because his accomplice(Kaioshin) was said to be stronger than Piccolo, but he didn't actually know, because they never fought. So I just go with my gut feeling, which is Kibito < base Gohan.Okay, so a few weird things I notice immediately in the Buu arc list: first, Kibito is only 30 million. Why? He was stated in the Daizenshuu to have a battle power that could give a good fight to base Gohan... what logic is there to giving him a battle power of 30 million instead? Gohan's power seems too high (I presume that's SS2, not SS1 Gohan); barley 10% weaker than he was as a kid, when according to Vegeta he was "much, much better when he killed Cell". South Kaioshin being 60 billion, making him stronger than Pure Buu, doesn't seem likely, both because of Kaioshin's comment at the beginning of the arc and Mr. Buu's demonstrated strength later (he has the South Kaioshin inside of him). Then later in the arc, I have one main quibble; why is base form Vegetto stronger than Gohan-Buu?
No that is just SS Gohan and again the gaps just aren't that consistent in this list lol.
Yeah South Kaioshin is weird, I just don't know where to put him, but I do like the idea of him posing some sort of a threat to Buu, so that's why he ended up this strong.
Vegetto is that strong for no particular reason other than I liked the anime episode, where he trounced Gohan-Buu. His immediate transformation into Super Saiyan may imply his base is weaker than Buu of course.
That was a combination of me being lazy, not wanting Goku to be too close Freeza in base form and that I like it when the numbers look like that.And while I don't care about BOG levels much, I just have to ask: Goku making absolutely no gains in strength at all in five years of training?
He should probably be stronger though.
