Does anybody actually think that DBZ got better post-Namek?

[PelucheCR7]

Gotenks vs. Buu - too much comedy.

You make a good point about the lack of good fights in the Cell arc, but there still a lot of great stuff. Buu suffers from the comedy. I don't mind some interspersed, but the fight itself becomes a chucklefest, instead of a serious battle for the fate of the world, it bothers me. It's one of the reasons why Iron Man 3 bothered, too much comedy at inappropriate times.

I can see why you can't take Gotenks vs Buu seriously, I thought was a pretty good fight with many techniques in it, but really It depends on how you actually are basically that will determine if you like it or not.

[Fionordequester]

And to be fair, the Gotenks vs. Buu fight actually IS a lot easier to take seriously in the manga, where there aren't extremely protracted segments of Piccolo telling Gotenk's to "get out of the tub!" and stuff like that.

I mean, the goofiness is still there, but it's not as bad as it was in the anime.

[Gaffer Tape]

Really? The goofiness of the Gotenks/Boo fight (both in the manga and anime) was the only reason I found that fight interesting, whereas almost every other Boo-era fight was boring as hell!

[RandomGuy96]

I also liked Dabra vs Gohan (from what little we saw of it, more so in the anime), the anime version of Buutenks vs Gohan, and Pure Buu vs Goku.

[Kid Buu]

The problem is that most of the battles are one-sided wank fest that just go nowhere. Mystic Gohan and Super Vegetto in particular stick out.

[Mystic Buu]

For me,DBZ got better post-Namek.Cell saga was good,but i didn't have feeling of real Dragon Ball.It was serious,but not too serious.Buu saga was great because of humour and Gotenks.Also,Buu was only main villian in DBZ who wasn't pure evil.

[PelucheCR7]

The problem is that most of the battles are one-sided wank fest that just go nowhere. Mystic Gohan and Super Vegetto in particular stick out.

Gohan Vs Super Buu started out really good but them became one sided, vegito started good as well, well in the anime at least, but the other fights aren't one sided, there is barely any one sided fight in the buu saga asides from the these two to a certain extent.

[RandomGuy96]

The problem is that most of the battles are one-sided wank fest that just go nowhere. Mystic Gohan and Super Vegetto in particular stick out.

I had no problem with Gohan vs Buu, since it was short and served the plot. Buu was planning to overcome Gohan, so seeing Gohan beat on him first makes his eventual triumph more shocking (and satisfying, for those who were rooting for him). Vegetto I'll give you; it was too long and full of PIS, even though the candy gag was funny. And I don't think the Buu Saga really has any more one-sided battles than the Cell, Saiyan, and Freeza sagas. It may even have more even ones, or at least not completely one-sided ones.

[PelucheCR7]

The problem is that most of the battles are one-sided wank fest that just go nowhere. Mystic Gohan and Super Vegetto in particular stick out.

I had no problem with Gohan vs Buu, since it was short and served the plot. Buu was planning to overcome Gohan, so seeing Gohan beat on him first makes his eventual triumph more shocking (and satisfying, for those who were rooting for him). Vegetto I'll give you; it was too long and full of PIS, even though the candy gag was funny. And I don't think the Buu Saga really has any more one-sided battles than the Cell, Saiyan, and Freeza sagas. It may even have more even ones, or at least not completely one-sided ones.

I agree buu saga barely has one sided fights, as for the cell saga, I liked it but the action was weak, with the only standouts being goku vs cell, 16 vs cell, and piccolo vs 17. As for Freeza saga really doesn't have one sided fights and if there are, they serve their purpose ( Vegeta vs frieza), it was a great saga and arguably the best in terms of story and great on action.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Except for Vegeta's jerkass plot pit-stops, I actually thought the Imperfect-Cell saga the best Post-Freeza arc. It was the only arc where it felt like everyone on both sides were taking themselves seriously and seeing all the events as a new threat to the challenge. It was the only Arc in Z where people were legitamently working hard or trying to stop the villain with real concern, they even befriended their prior enemies (the cyborgs) simply because Cell was worse than they were. Cell also had a clear an unique objective solely to meet the exploits of his true function. It was dark at times too especially with stage 1 cell. It was diverse, and various characters had differing personalities and developed in areas unique to them.

The Perfect Cell arc was bland because he just stood in one spot for 10 days and wanted to hold his posh-waste-of-time tournament then got wrecked by the OP-Gohan. The saga only got interesting when Cell returned Powered up after the Explosion.

The Buu saga was REALLY boring entirely to me and uninteresting. All the new characters were generic and Buu had no real objective at all to his being after he left babidi. Super Buu did nothing but shout and whine, Kid Buu was just a pink Broly far to OP with no real motive. He magically learns Instant transmission with no explaination behind it and can magically travel to otherworld using it. A lot of the saga made no sense, way too simplistic and had little to no connecting backstory at all.

The Babidi/Majin Vegeta and Fat Buu x Hurcle arcs were the only ones I actually found fair and interesting. Super Buu/Kid Buu himself was the worst villain ever... He has no goal, no backstory, no relevance, doesnt even want the dragonballs... nothing, he had no purpose.

I agree buu saga barely has one sided fights...

Everyone that fought Buu basically lost until the ending Spirit Bomb. Buu was OP the entire saga, not counting how unexplainably powerful Kid Buu seemed to be.
Most if not all the fights were one-sided because it was either someone stalling for time, or someone losing because they arent taking Buu seriously.

[Kid Buu]

I'd have to say the Cell arc is really bland outside of Imperfect Cell. Future Trunks, the Androids, etc. can all be described in one word: BLAND. There was nothing really exciting in this arc except for the protagonists trying to stop Cell's completion, but once that ends the arc becomes boring again.

The Buu arc was really great until Majin Vegeta died, then it just kind of fizzled down. I lied a few things after that (Mr. Satan, Gotenks, Buu absorption plan) but the story eventually went to shit and I stopped caring.

Namek isn't too great for me either; I think the Saiyan arc was the last great arc for me.

[Nikkolas]

E very other DBZ villain is better and smarter than Freeza and that includes Super Buu. Why? Because Cell and Buu had to THINK to gain power. They were born of decent enough strength but not unstoppable. Cell had it worse than Super Buu but Buu's days were numbered as soon as Gohan started training. Anyway, both of them couldn't just whip out ANOTHER TRANSFORMATION when they are losing. They had to use strategy and tactics and break up the fights with something else. Freeza was the master of dragging out boring, repetitive fight scenes and that is one of the worst aspects about Z compared to DB.

In addition, I prefer the Cell Saga because I loathe Adult Goku and his obsession with violence. Having Gohan step up as the new main hero was refreshing as I actually could care about him. He had a moral center his father lost after growing up.

[RandomGuy96]

I'd have to say the Cell arc is really bland outside of Imperfect Cell. Future Trunks, the Androids, etc. can all be described in one word: BLAND. There was nothing really exciting in this arc except for the protagonists trying to stop Cell's completion, but once that ends the arc becomes boring again.

The Buu arc was really great until Majin Vegeta died, then it just kind of fizzled down. I lied a few things after that (Mr. Satan, Gotenks, Buu absorption plan) but the story eventually went to shit and I stopped caring.

Namek isn't too great for me either; I think the Saiyan arc was the last great arc for me.

I think the Saiyan arc was great and the Buu arc was even better. I actually think the Buu arc got better after Vegeta died; not that it was bad before, but when Super Buu showed up is when everything started becoming really good. It then had a massive drop in quality soon after Potara was introduced to shove Goku back into the spotlight, but even that bit of awfulness can't completely cancel out how good the first two thirds are. The Freeza arc was good, but really dragged on in certain parts, like when Freeza repeatedly declared that he wasn't left handed, and the character himself felt like a rehash of Vegeta. Hell, half the arc is just one long fight with Freeza. Cell arc sucked something serious, for reasons I won't repeat. Suffice to say I think it's the worst of the four by FAR.

[Codarik]

Personally, I find the manga consistently good, while the anime got worse during Namek. Specifically starting at episode 68, that was when filler became less interesting was obviously put there just to stall time. That's why my canon is Z episodes 1-67, Kai episode 35-end. While filler doesn't effect my thoughts on the plot, which again is consistently good, it does however make me think why some people do like the Cell and Buu arcs of the Z anime moreso than the Saiyan and Namek/Freeza arc. But I can completely understand why someone likes the Cell and/or Buu arc than the others in the manga.

[PelucheCR7]

I'd have to say the Cell arc is really bland outside of Imperfect Cell. Future Trunks, the Androids, etc. can all be described in one word: BLAND. There was nothing really exciting in this arc except for the protagonists trying to stop Cell's completion, but once that ends the arc becomes boring again.

The Buu arc was really great until Majin Vegeta died, then it just kind of fizzled down. I lied a few things after that (Mr. Satan, Gotenks, Buu absorption plan) but the story eventually went to shit and I stopped caring.

Namek isn't too great for me either; I think the Saiyan arc was the last great arc for me.

I think the Saiyan arc was great and the Buu arc was even better. I actually think the Buu arc got better after Vegeta died; not that it was bad before, but when Super Buu showed up is when everything started becoming really good. It then had a massive drop in quality soon after Potara was introduced to shove Goku back into the spotlight, but even that bit of awfulness can't completely cancel out how good the first two thirds are. The Freeza arc was good, but really dragged on in certain parts, like when Freeza repeatedly declared that he wasn't left handed, and the character himself felt like a rehash of Vegeta. Hell, half the arc is just one long fight with Freeza. Cell arc sucked something serious, for reasons I won't repeat. Suffice to say I think it's the worst of the four by FAR.

I say that when Super Buu turned to kid buu, the Buu arc regain back its momentum.

[RandomGuy96]

No, it just keeps getting worse. The whole final battle is just the result of massive PIS, which really cheapens the final victory.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Every other DBZ villain is better and smarter than Freeza and that includes Super Buu. Buu had to THINK to gain power. They were born of decent enough strength but not unstoppable.

Buu isnt remotely intelligent, he is capable of outsmarting his enemies but only when he really really wants to get something. Beyond that one instance where he considered absorbing people, e was mindless, whiny and lazy. If Ultimate Gohan wasnt such an Epic failure, Buu woould have been dead long before he actually got his shit together. Though oddly when he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo, his intelligence and composure gets a Zenkai and suddenly he turns into Perfect Cell in personality... but when he absorbs Gohan STILL having Piccolo's brain he gets stupidly cocky with Goku and Vegeta allowing them to fuse, and then turns into a blubbering immature mess of butthurt throught the fight with Vegito.

Anyway, both of them couldn't just whip out ANOTHER TRANSFORMATION when they are losing.

I think Freeza and Buu were the only characters in the series to actually do that.

In addition, I prefer the Cell Saga because I loathe Adult Goku and his obsession with violence.

HIS obession? Vegetas the one that kills people for no reason.

I say that when Super Buu turned to kid buu, the Buu arc regain back its momentum.

I actually say that was the worst part of the saga because Buu completely lost all his brain functions in exchange for being magically OP to the very definition. Buu just reverted into a spoiled child who just wanted to play with whomever he wanted. Beerus/Bills at least has personality.
Kid Buu was just a blob of nothing that didnt even speak... FAT Buu has more of a personality.

[RandomGuy96]

Buu isnt remotely intelligent, he is capable of outsmarting his enemies but only when he really really wants to get something. Beyond that one instance where he considered absorbing people, e was mindless, whiny and lazy.

So Buu isn't intelligent unless he wants to outsmart people, which he does?

No, it's not just that one instance. He also was smart enough to recognize that Gotenks' SS3 had a weaksauce weakness (and won that fight despite being weaker), didn't toy with Gohan in typical DBZ villain fashion (because he realized he was under a time limit), immediately went to kill Dende when he realized Dende could heal people, left a spare part lying around to surprise Gohan in case Plan A failed (and made sure to catch him off guard, since he implied later in the Vegetto fight that it wouldn't have worked otherwise), and did something extremely shocking considering the last arc: refused to let his opponents get stronger. When Gohan and Goku were going to fuse, he said that even though he doesn't think the result could beat him, he'll just kill them both them anyway, because "why take the chance?" He did the same thing when Goku tried to merge with Vegeta, which would have worked if Goku couldn't teleport, which Buu couldn't have foreseen, and even then it SHOULD have worked, but it didn't because of inconsistent speed feats and PIS.

Seriously, contrast Freeza and Vegeta, and Perfect Cell. And Piccolo Jr and the Crane Hermit for that matter. When do they ever act intelligent? They usually have one or two savvy moments and act like morons the rest of the time.

If Ultimate Gohan wasnt such an Epic failure, Buu woould have been dead long before he actually got his shit together. Though oddly when he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo, his intelligence and composure gets a Zenkai and suddenly he turns into Perfect Cell in personality

He acts more or less the same after absorbing Piccolo, just more eloquent. If anything, he turns into Perfect Cell's opposite. If he acted anything like Perfect Cell, he would have died, and this arc would be very short.

but when he absorbs Gohan STILL having Piccolo's brain he gets stupidly cocky with Goku and Vegeta allowing them to fuse, and then turns into a blubbering immature mess of butthurt throught the fight with Vegito.

Okay, now I'm convinced you simply didn't watch what you're complaining about. He didn't let Goku and Vegeta fuse, he went to stop it. He did suggest that Goku fuse with either Dende or Mr. Satan, but five seconds later he basically laughed that suggestion off and went to punch Goku in half. Vegeta randomly came back to life right after that, and you can hardly fault Buu for not knowing Vegeta would be a factor, considering he killed Vegeta personally.

He also at least managed to dupe Vegetto into getting Candy Beam'd (judging by his face, Vegetto wasn't expecting that, and wouldn't have survived it if not for special Kaioshin magic) and, in the anime, came up with the rather creative plan of forcing himself down Vegetto's throat, which at least caused him difficulties. But in truth, there's not all that much you can do to someone that much stronger than you, no matter how intelligent you are (at least not if they're focused on you, which Vegetto was). I'm not sure how this is any worse than Freeza's and Cell's breakdowns when outmatched. Their response was to whine even more than Buu and launch completely ineffective attacks that they should know won't work and just waste energy. They wouldn't have lasted long enough to be threats if SS Goku/SS2 Gohan had just killed them immediately rather than letting them power up (you know, like Buu would have).

I think Freeza and Buu were the only characters in the series to actually do that.

Freeza and Vegeta do it. So does Perfect Cell, to an extent (it's more "power-ups" than transformations, but the result is the same). Buu never does it; his transformations are either earned (Buutenks, Buuhan) or involuntary (Evil Buu/Good Buu, Super Buu, Buuccolo, Pure Buu).

HIS obession? Vegetas the one that kills people for no reason.

Goku agreed to fight him and resurrect Buu and refused to use Potara against Pure Buu, even though that would solve the conflict in seconds, despite being willing to use it against the stronger Super Buu 5 minutes ago.

Kid Buu was just a blob of nothing that didnt even speak... FAT Buu has more of a personality.

That's the whole point. He's a mindless and childish demon who just wants to destroy. I thought he and Fat Buu were refreshing after King Piccolo, Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, Freeza, Gero, and Cell all had basically the same personality, and even Super Buu started slipping towards that kind of personality by the very end. And Pure Buu wasn't really "magically OP"; he was much weaker than Super Buu as a result of getting his absorptions removed, which was logical, and was only a threat because Goku and Vegeta tried to fight him alone instead of grabbing Gohan and having him one-shot this Buu.

[Fionordequester]

You know, as much as some people bash on the Vegetto vs. Buuhan fight, that's actually one of my favorite fights in the series, or at least, it is in the anime, ESPECIALLY if you watch the dub version...

In fact, I would even go as far as to say that if there's any series of scenes that are better in the dub than the original version, it's that fight, just for the dialogue alone. Seriously, the Japanese version may have been amusing, but the English dialogue is comedy GOLD!! I would definitely check it out if you haven't.

[baneofdemon22]

You know, as much as some people bash on the Vegetto vs. Buuhan fight, that's actually one of my favorite fights in the series, or at least, it is in the anime, ESPECIALLY if you watch the dub version...

In fact, I would even go as far as to say that if there's any series of scenes that are better in the dub than the original version, it's that fight, just for the dialogue alone. Seriously, the Japanese version may have been amusing, but the English dialogue is comedy GOLD!! I would definitely check it out if you haven't.

I agree. I love all his quips! In Japanese it was very boring for me. I That and when Goku and Vegeta are in the Boo's intestines. I just wanted it to end in Japanese, but in English, I thought it was really enjoyable.