When Ocean Cast switched to Funimation's In House.....

[TheGmGoken]

Initial reactions. I know the internet wasn't as popular. But what was the reaction on the internet. Some really old forums. While I was on a different form(about wrestling) we had a topic about this and included really old forums that's only can be seen on some Google cache. I didn't have internet at the time so for the oldies out there or researchers. What was the reaction? Did people take notice? Opinion on music?

I found something from 2004 but that's not that long ago. I'm thinking more of 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003.

But here what I found in 2004.

WHOA HUGE VOICE ACTOR CHANGE IN DBZ FRIEZA SAGA

I don't know how many of you guys noticed this.

Anyway I was re-watching my collection of the DBZ series and part way through when goku was on the space ship on his way to nakek his voice changed. It was really crap.

Anyway, I get up to episode 54 I think it was, and BAM TONS of changes. Krillan's voice, goku's voice and vegeta's voice all CHANGED. I think other characters voices change as well. They used the good actors for goku and vegeta though, which was good.

Also, the music changed big time as well. Lot's of different battle tunes and stuff. Much better ones IMO.

I just thought it was kinda weird that so much would get changed just like that in the middle of a saga. Was there some kind of big break they had before they continued with episode 54?

Where have you been? The Saiyan and Namek Sagas have old voice actors that are crappy and everything was edited. FUNimation started doing the dubs at a certain point and most of the voices stayed the same after that. Thank God they redubbed those old episodes. Those voices were horrible. I hate Vegeta's old voice. He tries way too hard to sound like a badass and his voice is way too scratchy.

After hearing both sets of voices, I liked Vegeta's voice-change. In the beginning, he wasn't much of a badass. He was such a stuck-up brat, and that's what his voice sounded like. After that though, I think his personality was too hard for that voice, so I'm glad they changed.

And when I first noticed that pretty much all the voices changed (I can't remember, that was.....5 years ago? 6? Ouch. Dating myself.), I looked in the credits, I think I remember that the location in the "voices recorded at suchandsuch studios in _____" credit had changed from Canada to Texas. Quite a change, there.

Oh yeah, I remember the music changes too. I remember not liking that suddenly there were sounds for flying. You don't make a sound when you're just hovering. Come on! I always had the impression that after that change they were using the original Japanese sounds and music. Was I right?

Vegeta's old voice was too high pitched and bitchy. And whoever they had doing goku's voice for a while there sucked sooooo bad. I love his classic normal voice much much more.

Here's good old Daizex!

Hahahaha.

I love the new generation of fans. The Ocean Group is considered "crap"? That's just awesome.

Folks, it's *ALL* in what you're exposed to first. The particular individuals in this thread seem to be much newer fans, and were thus introduced via FUNimation voices. That's what you know, that's what you like.

You probably don't have a freakin' CLUE what kind of controversy and uproar there was right after season three began its release. While it's true that FUNimation's voice talent has VASTLY improved over the years (now into a group worth respecting)... oh man...

You just don't know at all what happened years back... I wish I could just sit some newer fans down in a time machine and watch their eyes open and jaws drop.

Anyway, to actually address the original comment at hand... Actually, I was going to type up a really nice long response, but I realized I could just be a dork and link to another page of mine that already answers it better than I could summarize:
http://www.daizex.com/guides/newbie/

No, the voices were not "crap"... according to other fans. Like I said, you like what you're introduced to FIRST. You heard FUNimation first, you liked it best. However, you are not the end-all, be-all fan who decides what is "good."

For me, an English Goku can and never will be anyone other than Ian Corlett. Schemmel's certainly improved over the years, but I heard Corlett first, and that's who I associate with the character for an English voice. Same goes for Jason Grey Stanford as Raditz, Scott McNeil as Piccolo, Ted Cole as Yamcha, and many more. THOSE are the people that *I* first heard as English voices for the characters, and those are the ones that *I* like the best.

And I'm just as entitled to my opinion on characters are you are.

There are plenty of ways to look at things. Just because YOU like something and YOU saw something doesn't mean that YOU have the only opinion, nevermind any kind of validity to that opinion in terms of application to other fans.

I mean, geeze... what do you think the Spanish-speaking population thinks of FUNimation's voices?


The fact remains that you can't just tell someone which voice group is best. It's all subjective. Not to mention the fact that the Ocean Group is a professionally trained group of individuals who have been doing it for years and tend to get A-list contracts. You can't just say "they suck."

I didn't think they were ALL perfect, but I certainly prefer that group over FUNimation, and I know many others do. At the same time, no-one will ever replace the Japanese cast for me... *swoon*

Date Posted: Dec 8, 2004 #30
I was exposed to FUNi and Ocean around the same time I started watching Dragonball (you can imagine my confusion) after digging up some research on the net I discovered I was being exposed to both the Ocean and FUNi versions. In my opinion Ocean has the edge over FUNi. Ocean has a superior cast of Voice talent and IMO better Music. The only thing FUNi does better is give characters there own exclusive theme music.

Here are a few examples that come to mind:

Ocean Cell > FUNi Cell
Ocean Majin Buu > FUNi Majin Buu
Ocean Fat Buu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FUNi Fat Buu
Ocean Vegeto > FUNi Vegeto
Ocean Gotens > FUNi Gotenks

I haven't seen FUNi's work on Dragonball GT or the original Dragonball, but the Blue Water(Ocean) versions of DBGT and DB are terrible.

Ocean Goten > Funi Goten? Majin Boo Ocean > Funi Boo? Ocean Cell > Funi Cell? IMO.

So anyone can help me dig up some old forums reaction to the switch?

Edit:
Found a 2003 one. Let's go!

I think the guy that did piccolo's voice is now doing wolverine on X-men evolutions.

The guy that did vegeta, I think is doing a character on an anime series on cartoon network, I forget which one.

What about the guy that did goku's voice etc.

Does anyone know about these guys?

Hopefully burning in Hell.

I wouldnt wish death and damnation on anyone.. but if they have moved on to Xmen Evo. then its a big step up from that DBZ garbage.

sorry. I've watched it a couple of times and it just doesnt turn my crank in the slightest.

Wow seems like DBZ had some haters even backed then. Wonder if he got nostalgia for it and claims he loved it as a kid now.

Thanks to the writing, and the change in voice actors. They're just not as great as the originals.

And where in this thread did I ask what you thought about DBZ??? HUH?!

sheeesh.

Seems like some people wanted Ocean Back. Wow have times changed( I know some still miss Ocean. But mostly Funi fans now)

they stopped working on it because funimation was being a stingy bitch... oh well *=l

I think after DBZ got canned after the second season years ago, all the actors went on to Beast Wars and Gundam Wing, and then were unavailable for the newer seasons. I know that Ian Corlett, the guy who did Goku's voice, did Cheetor's voice on Beast Wars, and the guy who did Piccolo's voice did Rattrap's voice and Duo Maxwell's voice. But I really wish they would come back! I hated the new voice actors when the first episode of season 3 came out.

Or being forced to watch the piece of crap they helped create.

Same diff, I guess.

Even backed then. The internet was filled with hate .

screw freeza, that characters voice was screwy to begin with.

Also I actually like the american voice of vegeta, the first one. My favorite part was when he found out on namek that gohan had taken the last dragon ball from him. He then come fly out of the water, where he hid it, screaming bloody dead, and how they would escape his rath. That was my favorite voice over part. He really nailed the rage I thought.

But honestly goku sounds like a little kid in the japanese version, that worked when he was a little kid, it doesn't when he's an adult.

He's right. I was watching some of the old eps. The voice actors were a lot better than the current ones. I heard the change was due to "FUN"imation moving to Teas. Most of those VAs were out of canada. I also heard most of those voice actors dub the UK version of the show since they're lucky enough to not have Funi owning the rights over there.

. More Funimation hate.

i knew it !
when half-way the namek saga, freeza got another voica actor along with krillin and some others....i HATED that krillin voice. Luckely all the real voices are on the internet. or so i think. i loved the part where vegeta got smashed into the back by goku's elbow on a rock when he poured out his pain. i really felt with him. ow well...those were the good eps.
The voices of GT are TOTAL **** !

Wow the new voices really got some hate. This is early Kai level of hate.

[penguintruth]

One group of failures to another group of failures.

Though both groups have grown considerably.

[VegettoEX]

Zero people online talking at that exact point in time had any amount of positive comments for either the new cast or the new music.

[penguintruth]

Zero people online talking at that exact point in time had any amount of positive comments for either the new cast or the new music.

Yeah, which is why when I returned to the fandom a few years ago, I was so shocked that there were so many dub fans. Because when I originally became a fan of DBZ, and DBZ Uncensored and the like were in their prime, you couldn't find a positive word about the dub online, and I just naturally assumed those opinions hadn't changed, because we'd all watched the VHS fansubs and realized Funimation had screwed the show and the fans.

I didn't understand, and to some degree still don't understand, why there were suddenly these multitudes of fans of the English dub. A few outliers, sure, but it's still so popular. Things changed.

Back then, when the Planet Namek site was around, when you still hosted BGM tracks, when Meri's Temple O' Trunks was still a thing, Big Bang Attack, and the like, not a lot of people were dub fans. They watched it on TV because it was there, but they knew it was an inferior version.

I could be remembering some things wrong, though. It was so long ago!

[TheGmGoken]

Zero people online talking at that exact point in time had any amount of positive comments for either the new cast or the new music.

What year was the switch again? If possible can you remember or at least do a basic he/she said "*Insert quote" here? Any old forums or links you can pull up?

[linkdude20002001]

I miss the old days; the days when all hated the "classic normal voices" that fans love today. I still feel the same way towards the FUNi-Ocean and in-house voices as I did back then. It was always my dream to watch an English dub of the TV series in the style Pioneer/Geneon/whatever did of the three movies. I feel so nostalgic now!

DBZ Uncensored gives some incite as to what fans were experiencing at the time. I know I used to look forwards to each episode he added. I was bummed when he stopped doing it.

Also, read through the old news updates of the old Daizenshuu EX and you'll find yourself lost in a strange and distant past. :O

By the way, the swtich-over occurred 1999 September 13.

[VegettoEX]

What year was the switch again?

It was 1999. The first two VHS for "Season 3" came out at some point earlier, but then it began on TV in September.

If possible can you remember or at least do a basic he/she said "*Insert quote" here? Any old forums or links you can pull up?

I remember personally writing that I was convinced FUNimation would be laughed out of Cartoon Network headquarters.

[Mewzard]

Zero people online talking at that exact point in time had any amount of positive comments for either the new cast or the new music.

I started with the Ocean Dub, yet got over my initial shock rage on the voices soon enough, and grew to like them (though I probably wasn't a forum-goer until the early 2000s *2001 or so*). I blame Toonami airing the whole Ocean Dub's worth of material on repeat 5 days a week (it must have aired nearly five times in a year before the Funi Dub came out).

I was just eventually glad to get more of the series.

I also got my love for Funi's Z dub, but I didn't let nostalgia get in the way of me loving Kai for being the blatantly superior product in terms of dub (nor did I let said dub love get in the way of my purchasing the Dragon Boxes *well, all but 7...* and growing to love the original Japanese version of Z).

I started as an Ocean Fan, became a Funi Z fan, before finally becoming a Japanese Z/Funi Kai fan. I'd like to think I grew as a fan for a while, and was at the right place at the right time to appreciate both for what they are.

[Super Sonic]

Didn't go on net much until 2000, but I remember hating on a lot of those voices at first. Things grow on people. Recall a lot of folks hated the replacement voice for Supes on JL, but now everyone loves Newburn and consider him and Daly equal.

[Levlik]

I was only 10 years old at the time but I do vividly remember the premiere (I remember it was promoted like crazy on Cartoon Network and I believe there was a short marathon that preceded it so the episodes could catch up to the premiere. It was a fairly big deal at the time...at least to 10 year olds who only watched the dub, anyway). A few tidbits that stood out to me...

-I did not like the voices at all at the time. I didn't mind Sean Schemmel and Stephanie Nadolny, I thought Chris Sabat's Vegeta was sub-par but acceptable but I hated Chris Sabat's Piccolo and Sonny Strait's Krillin. And Dale "Krillin's in the house!" Kelly needs no words. He was laughably bad then and even moreso now...to the point where I almost kind of miss his absense on every home video release in the last decade or so.

-I loved the music. The Ron Wasserman score in seasons 1 and 2 to me mostly sat in the background and went unnoticed. I love it nowadays for nostalgic reasons but in 1999 I didn't care for it. I had found out somewhere on the internet that the Japanese version's music was completely different and always wondered what it actually sounded like. I was shocked at how much I noticed the music now, and in a good way. It's embarassing to admit, but I liked it so much that I honestly assumed it was the original Japanese score until I downloaded a Japanese clip of Goku's Super Saiyan transformation before it aired in the US. One thing I will always love about the season 3 Faulconer music is how electronic it was, bordering on ambient at times. When the season premiered and the "Ginyu Force Theme" started I immediately fell in love with the soundtrack. I wish Faulconer Productions had stayed with that original electronic style that was prominent in the Ginyu/Freeza episodes. I was never a fan of how around the Cell and especially Buu episodes the music was mostly synthetic horns and strings (And when Scott Morgan left the guitars were now synthetic and sounded awful), but that's another topic entirely. I don't know whether FUNi hit the bull's eye of getting a soundtrack that American children would enjoy since I was already growing into a fan of electronic music at the time, but hey, their plan worked on me, much as I would grow to prefer the show with its original music and eventually language.

-Blood! No more poorly edited dust and sweat but full-on blood! Spurts were edited out but it was shocking to actually see blood on DBZ on TV for once.

-It's been forever since I've compared the season 2 episodes to season 3, but I swear the episodes got darker. Like, the show itself was literally darker and more "dirty" looking. Did FUNi receive completely different tapes or masters for these episodes? Maybe I'm crazy, but I know this was something I noticed in 1999.

It took a few episodes to really settle in, but all in all, I enjoyed it because it was DBZ and it was finally continuing. I would've prefered the original voices, and still do, but it didn't really ruin anything for me. I was a dumb 10 year old kid in 99, and so were tons of other fans who were too young to let their voice be heard on the internet (Although in 2000 I discovered DBZ Uncensored and sort of grew to dislike the dub in general...especially after having seen the Pioneer movie dubs display how a proper dub of the show could have and should have been done). In retrospect it's ridiculous how cheaply produced it was and how huge of a success it became despite (or because of?) that.

[Super Sonic]

Stuff like that happens. Most folks I know had a debate over whether Sonic X merely suffered from a bad dub, or was it just a bad show that a good dub couldn't save. Yet it did better here than it did in Japan. Some guys I knew were confused on why, while some surmised a lot of little kids liked it and outnumbered the adults and teens who didn't like it.

[ABED]

One group of failures to another group of failures. Though both groups have grown considerably.

The Ocean Group weren't failures.

The feeling I got is the hardcore fans on the net didn't like a number of the casting decisions (eg, Drummond, the voice of Tenshinhan, Kaio, and especially Freeza) but got used to them and in a number of cases, even liked them. However, it seemed as soon as they got used to the cast, it changed, and the response wasn't pleasant. There was a huge uproar after seemingly every new voice was introduced. The music was universally despised.

I should add that I do recall people not liking Kelamis. Things have changed. Even though I didn't like most of the changes, I did prefer Sean over Kelamis from the get go.

I vaguely recall thinking it sounded cheap.

but now everyone loves Newburn and consider him and Daly equal.

I don't think they are seen as equals so much as Newburn was a suitable replacement.

[andrewtuell1991]

And Brice "Krillin's in the house!" Armstrong needs no words.

Er, that was Dale Kelley as the original Funi narrator, also the first Funi VA for Captain Ginyu. Brice Armstrong never did the narration for Dragon Ball Z. Which is unfortunate. He ties with Doc Morgan as my pick for best English Narrator.

Like penguintruth said, it was one group of losers replacing another. Sure there were a small handful of good VAs on both sides, but not enough to outweigh the bad ones.

[GarrettCRW]

As someone with no exposure to the original version when the new dub cast arrived, I was most appalled with the voice direction. Every time the characters would shudder in terror, their actors would share their impressions of Beavis and Butt-Head laughing, and it drove me NUTS!

[Levlik]

And Brice "Krillin's in the house!" Armstrong needs no words.

Er, that was Dale Kelley as the original Funi narrator, also the first Funi VA for Captain Ginyu. Brice Armstrong never did the narration for Dragon Ball Z. Which is unfortunate. He ties with Doc Morgan as my pick for best English Narrator.

Er, yeah, I don't know how I managed to screw that one up. Dale Kelly's obviously who I was referring to.

Shows me for posting when tired.

[B]

Maybe I'm an extremely bad example/outlying piece of data, but I got into the series right after the switch and gorged myself on the "Ginyu Saga." Going back to watch earlier episodes, it was quite obvious the voices were different, but I... didn't really care.

I suppose it's worth mentioning I previously couldn't get into the show, and honestly, I'm inclined to say it was because the anime had its anime problems we're all aware of and not because of the dub.

[90sDBZ]

When the series aired in the UK in 2000 I watched bits and pieces of Seasons 1 and 2 but didn't properly get addicted to it until Season 3. I then went back and watched Seasons 1 and 2 when they were shown in re-runs and really enjoyed them too. When it got back to the point of the dub switch I wasn't bothered in the slightest. I loved the early Ocean dub and Levy's music but I always much preferred Goku and Frieza's voices in Funimation's inhouse dub to Kelamis and Newstone and I loved Faulconer even more than Levy. The rest of the cast change I felt pretty indifferent to. Now the switch to the Westwood dub during Season 4 on the other hand...

As for the internet reaction the difference between the old days and these days is that every fan is able to voice their opinion now. Back then the majority of dub fans were too young to be posting on the internet so a lot of older fans seemed to assume their opinions were the majority.

[RocktheDragon]

Thank for posting a lot of those "ancient" impressions on the changes to the dub OP, they are very insightful. With regards to my own interpretation of those events I remember the change making me feel a bit disappointing/discontent about hearing new voices with the actors/actresses. I had already grown a strong affinity to the Ocean Cast and it took me about 6 months to about a year to completely forget about any of it. This reminds me that I'd love to pick up the Funimation Rock the Dragon set sometime soon, just so I can reminisce about the early days of DBZ in the states.

[ABED]

Like penguintruth said, it was one group of losers replacing another. Sure there were a small handful of good VAs on both sides, but not enough to outweigh the bad ones.

Not really. What's with calling them names? Losers is really harsh and hardly justifiable. Were there bad ones in the Ocean dub? Sure, but that's actually few and far between. Most of the time it was a problem of miscasting, scripting, or direction. The in house cast was where there were more bad VAs, but many of them got recast in Kai, and those that weren't got better.

[Super Sonic]

Was also gonna say with calling the first group failures, given they were in a lot of cartoons before and during DBZ, I wouldn't call them failures.